Breastfeeding worries...

Supafly · Guru

Breastfeeding worries...

mctex · Guru

Laura, I know you're going to get plenty of advice from people who know more than me, but do you remember any distinct difference in how swollen you were after each baby?

One of the many LCs I had post-Alexandra (her name was Barbara Wilson-Clay, she's actually considered to be a thought leader in the field, has written books, etc.) told me that the same hormonal process that's responsible for milk production is responsible for fighting swelling, and that to the extent it's engaged in the latter, it can't perform as well in the former. She told me that for c/s moms in particular, her first advice is to do whatever it takes to get the swelling down.

My feet were like loaves of bread with both babies, so this seemed very plausible to me. Not sure if it's helpful to you.

I'm so excited for you!

Alison · Guru

Supafly wrote:

Don't kill me because of my pregnancy related craziness and premature posting about topics I need not worry about yet...

I am worried about breastfeeding already, lol. (I haven't talked to my OB, the pedi or the high risk OB yet, but I have been asking around and on the UC board have gotten lots of assurances that nursing on Remicade is safe. Jools found some great research on it for me too. So as of this moment, I am planning on breastfeeding.)

When Anna was born, I labored, then had the c/s and she was in the NICU so I used the hospital pump from the start. I had plenty of milk and would get between 6-10 ounces per session. The only reason I stopped with her was because I was sick from my infection and had to go on abx that were not ok for nursing. She stunk at nursing, but we would have eventually gotten the hang of it.

Then came Kate. No labor, scheduled c/s, she was full term and from the start never got enough. She cried all of the time and was hungry constantly unless we supplemented. When I pumped, I only got 1-2 ounces, but usually 1 and sometimes less. I was so frustrated with all of that plus incision issues again and Anna being so young, and I said screw it and put her on formula. I was diagnosed with UC a few months later. She, unlike Anna, was a great nurser. She latched on well right from the start. If I had had something to feed her, I think our nursing relationship would have been totally different.

So I do not have a good track record. I have always wondered why I had no supply the second time around. Was it the no labor? Stress from the situation? My UC starting up that I wasn't aware of at the time? did the hospital grade pump start things off really well for me? IHNI. But I am very worried that again I will have no supply. And seeing as I have been an epic failure in the past, I am worried about doing something that is so drastically different from my norm.

I am not sure what I am looking for here-maybe some advice? Reassurance? Experiences from you ladies? I know worrying about it isn't going to help matters, but I am already feeling anxiety about the whole thing!

Help!!!

What you pump is not an indication of how much milk you have - it's only a measurement of how much you can pump. And 1-2 ounces is actually outstanding, especially if you are primarily nursing. Peepers is almost 22 months old and still nursing, and I'm sure if I pumped right now, I wouldn't produce much, because my body isn't used to responding to a pump. It doesn't mean I don't have any milk.

Yes, a hospital-grade pump is awesome, LOL. But having a huge pumping output isn't necessary a good thing either - with Mason, I was pumping 6-10 oz. a session, and it made it really hard to transition him to breastfeeding because I was making SO much more than he ever needed. A breastfed baby typically takes in about 25 oz. over 24 hours, regardless of weight or age.

It's also really normal for a newborn to want to nurse constantly. People talk about every 3 hours, but for a breastfed newborn, it's far more frequent than that. A newborn's stomach is about the size of a marble, and breastmilk digests in about 90 minutes, so that tiny little amount of colostrum is perfect for a new baby, but they need frequent feedings.

As far as the constant crying, I wonder if there was a milk transfer issue and she wasn't able to get it out well. Was she wetting a lot of diapers without supplementation? If so, then she was getting enough. I don't think you didn't have milk. All that to say obviously I wasn't there and none of this is judgment whatsoever, so please don't take it that way at all (though I'm pretty sure you won't)! Having incision issues again AND a young toddler are no small thing!

I agree with Tex that swelling can be a problem sometimes, as can no labor. But I think more knowledge is also going to make a really big difference this time. You certainly never did anything wrong with Anna or Kate...but if you want to breastfeed this time, I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to.

There are some great articles here:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/newborn-nursing.html

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/frequent-nursing.html

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/growth-spurt.html

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/fussy-while-nursing.html

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/bfhelp-find.html

http://www.kellymom.com/health/meds/index.html

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/pumping_decrease.html

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/start/concerns/c-section.html

And you always know where to find Jools and I!

CoffeeQueen · Guru

Laura, I breastfed both my girls and also pumped because I had to return to work. Like Alison said, 1-2 oz just after birh is great. I mean I fed every hour to hour half when my girls were newborn. I also started pumping, but not the first two weeks. I wanted to allow my supply to come in. Some people are great pumpers, but I always had to work in order to get my full supply. Pumping and nursing is hard work. So, do not feel like you need to give up if pumping does not go well from the get go.

Stress will make it so much harder. I know saying not to stress is easy, but honestly it makes a big difference.

Stay positive and there should be no reason to not give it a try.

Wish ya luck!

Supafly · Guru

Thank you all SO MUCH for the input!!!!

Tex (I am still calling you that, lol, sorry!!), I really don't remember...hmmm. I will have to ask Bill if he does. I remember being swollen, but I don't remember with who and how bad it was, but that is very interesting to note.

Alison-she was not wetting. That and the constant crying were what caused us to move to the supplementation. It wasn't that she would cry an hour after nursing, she would cry as soon as she was done or 5 minutes later. It got to the point that I couldn't put her down at all, and that just didn't work. In all honesty, she would have been happy to suck on my boob 24/7. And while I know that I am supposed to enjoy that and give my baby that if she needs it, to be truthful, having that much physical contact with another human being causes me a great deal of anxiety. (IHNI why-I am sure a therapist could help get to the bottom of that one-I love on my kids a lot, but I can't be touched all day long. Bill takes the brunt of that, poor man) I couldn't manage that and maintain my sanity. And it was such a different experience than Anna had been. I don't think I was prepared for how different it would be. Anna was not a snuggler, and she was such a sleepy baby that I had to wake her to eat everytime. So even though she was getting breastmilk from day one, whether from me or a bottle, she also fell really easily into a schedule-even in the NICU she followed the schedule without fail. I *knew* that wasn't the norm, but I wasn't prepared for the opposite. Honestly, the whole atmosphere surrounding Kate's birth was very different. There was a lot more stress and anxiety during that time and after. In THAT regard, I feel like this time won't be the same way. I am not stressed about having this baby. Bill is a bit because of space in the house (and the expense, but that is always on his mind regardless), but overall we are really looking forward to it. And the girls are so much older-on weekends, they get up and basically take care of themselves if I lay a few things out for them the night before, you know? IDK-the whole mood about it is already very different. Already, I can't wait to meet this baby, and that is not normal for me! Plus I know what to expect from the birth. I was beyond stressed having a scheduled c/s last time. I know I will have anxiety about it this time as well but nothing like before. So hopefully, my mental space will be a lot more positive this time around. Thank you for the links too-I will look everything over.

Melissa-I know stress plays a huge role in my physical health, so I can't imagine it doesn't play a role in this kind of thing as well. Stress is a huge trigger for me with my disease and knowing that, I now work very hard to keep that under control as best as I can. So I think that will be of benefit. I am much more apt now to ask for help or tell people I can't handle something, you know? I know my own health depends on my looking out for me first because if I am not healthy then I can't take care of my family. When Kate was born, I was more in martyr mode, if that makes sense. And having a clearer picture of what to expect will help me too. I still don't think I can handle having a child attached to me all the time, but if that becomes a problem, then we'll introduce a bottle and let Bill take a feeding here or there. We'll find a way to make it work I think, without giving up on breastfeeding. It is good to know though that my pumping efforts were fairly normal. I felt like it was such a huge difference between my first and second, I thought there had to be something wrong with me. (and there was! Lol)

Thank you again, ladies!! I feel better knowing some of this, and as I get a plan together, I will feel more at ease too. I think I might meet with the LCs beforehand too.

CoffeeQueen · Guru

I totally recommend using the LC at the hospital. They can be a great help.

Supafly · Guru

I hope so!!! When Anna was born, there were a few nice ones and then there was a nazi. She was horrible and I hated her!!!! But I think building a rapport and getting some support from them would be a great thing. One never knows, but judging on past experiences, I can't bank on it all falling into place, you know? I think I will need some help to make it work.

Alison · Guru

Ahh, if she wasn't wetting, then my non-professional guess would be that there was a milk transfer issues - you were making it, and she wasn't swallowing it somehow. Has she ever been diagnosed with a tongue tie? Like when she sticks her tongue out, does it go past her lips or is it kind of short?

When nursing her, did you get sore? Or was the latch comfortable?

I think meeting with an LC is a great idea, and please make sure it's an IBCLC (board-certified lactation consultant) because many hospital "lactation nurses" are less than knowledgeable, and since you have had issues with past breastfeeding experiences, you'll be better off having someone familiar with more than just the normal course of newborn nursing.

You should find out if your health insurance covers LC visits. I know IBCLCs are more expensive than others, because of their vast knowledge and the experience it takes to achieve that designation, but a couple of consultations will be far less than a year of formula, LOL.

I'm so proud of you.

Supafly · Guru

Thanks!! (but maybe you should reserve that until post delivery, lmao)

Honestly, she had a great latch. Nursing her was comfortable for me-not like Anna. She had a hard time getting her little mouth on there just right, and we had a lot more luck with her using a shield at first. I definitely had pain with her and we had to restart a lot because of her latch. But Kate really was a natural at it. I don't really recall how much swallowing I heard from her when she would nurse-I may have fallen asleep a lot. And IHNI about her tongue, lol, but I will look at it! I will say that when we would give her bottles, she would gulp down 3 oz, which we thought was a lot for such a young baby. She seemed starved! But I really didn't have much of a knowledge base, so I am not sure about how well she was doing at getting the milk out. And the pedi really didn't care one way or the other about nursing. I mean, I am sure if I had made it clear I wanted to nurse at all costs, they would support that, assuming there wasn't an issue with failure to thrive or something, but they weren't going to push me either way I guess.

I will have to find out what my insurance covers-and about the LCs at the hospital and such. They sent them to me with Anna since she was early and in the NICU, but I never knew about their certifications. Definitely something to look into. And yes, it is cheaper for sure!! But beyond that, my girls are very healthy and always have been, but they both had issues with spitting/throwing up once they were on formula. Neither of them had done that at all until the switch was made. Anna's wasn't bad, but Kate's was, and I was never able to find a formula that seemed to be easy enough on her belly at that young age. She outgrew it, but I always felt that had she been getting my milk, she would not have had as much trouble with that. Bill is funny, he says I can only breastfeed this one for the first 3 weeks because that is all the girls got from me and it wouldn't be fair to them, lmao. I told him I didn't really care what he thought about that!!! when push comes to shove, I know he will support it. He was really upset both times that it didn't work out (which didn't help with my guilt).

I really do think you are right-gaining knowledge this time will help me a lot. I think if I go into it with more reasonable expectations as well as more information and people to look to for support and help, I will be ok. I mean, there is always the chance of something going wrong like me flaring or something, but barring something like that happening, I have more confidence that I will be able to get past the hurdles of the beginning and make it work!

Thank you!!

crystal · Guru

I hope it is easier for you this time, Supa! I delivered Mason vaginally and still had a low supply. My milk didn't come in until 5 days after he was born. I kept hurting my supply more by supplementing because I just got so exhausted (and I was using a nipple shield which also was lowering my supply). I didn't realize what I was doing. I finally got an LC around 9 weeks that came to my house and she basically just gave me a pep talk. She said that I COULD do this, I was just doubting myself and then turning to formula. She told me no more supplementing and I was to lay in bed and nurse him for the whole weekend a "nursing holiday". Whe was right! Worked like a charm. I was so nervous that he wasn't going to get enough, but within about 4 days of nursing, nursing, nursing, I fed him and saw that "drunk baby" look. I was so happy! This didn't happen until Mason was 9 weeks old.

Juni · Guru

I think what Crystal said is a huge part of it. Nursing a baby vs. formula feeding is so different that I think it's easier to jump to the conclusion that the baby isn't getting enough or you aren't making enough milk. The majority of the time, that really isn't the case. (Not *all* of the time though.)

I would say that is a huge part of it - don't doubt yourself so quickly and don't supplement quickly unless, of course, it is necessary. Supplementing is such a slippery slope and tends to be the beginning of the end as far as breastfeeding is concerned. So, if you are really wanting to EBF, it is probably going to be rough at first and FF is going to seem so much easier. But, I strongly believe that once it is established and you are in a good routine, I think it is SO much easier than bottle feeding.

Good luck! I think it's great that you are so motivated to try again and figure things out. :)

Sara · Guru

My first suggestion is for you to believe in yourself.

The LCs are great! At our hospitaly they are just like the nurses you can page one at anytime and they even call and check on you a few days then again around a week or two after you are home from the hospital.

I only lasted 5 days with Bryce but successfully nursed Owen (13 months) and Keegan (14 months) I hope to do the same with Ryder.

You can do this!! Ask any questions, we are here! :)

Sara · Guru

And like ABH offered you always have her and if you message Jools she will see the J symbol in the sky and come to the rescue. She has aided me many times in questions I have had.

Jo · Guru

We are all here for you, Laura!

The number one thing for me in having success with both Kevin and Katelyn is that I reached out for help right away. I didn't do that with Kyle and so I ended up pumping.

I used the LCs while in the hospital, I went to a LLL meeting with Kevin after being home for one night, I went to follow-up LC appts with both within the first week, I attended weekly breastfeeding support group meetings at the hospital (LOVED those!), I called Jools on the phone for help and support, I posted here.

There are so many resources for you, it's just a matter of speaking up and using them.

Things with Katelyn were going okay, she latched right away from the very beginning but for some reason it hurt like heck on one side but not the other. I went back to the LC at the hospital within a few days of being home and she was able to show me what I was doing differently, and honestly it was just the tiniest adjustment in the way I was holding her and bringing her to the breast that made the world of difference! I don't think I would have figured that out on my own because I was sure we were doing everything we could the right way. Just an example to show you how much they can really help.

I'm rooting for you, I believe in you, I know you can make it work.

Supafly · Guru

Thank you all so much for the support and the confidence!!

I will be honest here-one of the things that worries me the most about breastfeeding is my scheduling nature. I have no desire to change my scheduling nature. I have never not given my kids what they needed by any stretch, but schedules work for me-in all aspects of my life. Not knowing what to expect is something that causes me extreme stress. I kept charts about their eating and sleeping habits when both babies were born, and found Anna's very helpful to me when Kate was born. And sleep is paramount to every mom, but I physically start having bowel issues when I go without sleep. I have never liked going without sleep, obviously, but since my diagnosis, it has been a big problem for me, and definitely causes me anxiety about the newborn sleeping stuff-regardless of feeding method. In all honesty, I do not know that I physically or emotionally can handle only getting bits and pieces of sleep for months on end. My girls both slept through the night by 3 months, but I know a lot of moms whose EBF babies didn't for much longer than that. I know it sounds awful, but I do not think I will be able to manage that. Aside from someone hanging on me all day, which brings about a lot of anxiety as well, this issue is definitely at the forefront of my mind.

So IHNI how to deal with the realities of nursing and the realities of my personality and health, kwim? I mean, nursing every hour sounds like sheer torture to me, even if the baby is a great nurser. I felt a great deal of disconnect with both my girls when I would nurse them, and I am nervous about that too. With both girls, despite my guilt over not giving them breastmilk, I felt so much closer and more bonded to them when I didn't have to nurse them. It was like a weight had been lifted off of me and I could finally just enjoy my children.

I know this sounds horrible, especially to those who hold breastfeeding so dear, but I feel like if I am going to get over this stuff and actually try and breastfeed successfully, I need to face all of my issues. I nursed for such brief periods that IHNI if I would have come to enjoy it or not, you know? All I know right now is I didn't enjoy it at all, and I am worried about self sabotage coming into play this time as well before I really even give it a honest try.

Did any of you feel this way early on as well? Everyone kept telling me about how it was such an amazing bond and such, and I never felt that. It always felt like a burden. I am hoping that is something I can get over if I can get past the hurdles of the early stages. WDYT?

mctex · Guru

Supafly wrote:

Thank you all so much for the support and the confidence!!

I will be honest here-one of the things that worries me the most about breastfeeding is my scheduling nature. I have no desire to change my scheduling nature. I have never not given my kids what they needed by any stretch, but schedules work for me-in all aspects of my life. Not knowing what to expect is something that causes me extreme stress. I kept charts about their eating and sleeping habits when both babies were born, and found Anna's very helpful to me when Kate was born. And sleep is paramount to every mom, but I physically start having bowel issues when I go without sleep. I have never liked going without sleep, obviously, but since my diagnosis, it has been a big problem for me, and definitely causes me anxiety about the newborn sleeping stuff-regardless of feeding method. In all honesty, I do not know that I physically or emotionally can handle only getting bits and pieces of sleep for months on end. My girls both slept through the night by 3 months, but I know a lot of moms whose EBF babies didn't for much longer than that. I know it sounds awful, but I do not think I will be able to manage that. Aside from someone hanging on me all day, which brings about a lot of anxiety as well, this issue is definitely at the forefront of my mind.

So IHNI how to deal with the realities of nursing and the realities of my personality and health, kwim? I mean, nursing every hour sounds like sheer torture to me, even if the baby is a great nurser. I felt a great deal of disconnect with both my girls when I would nurse them, and I am nervous about that too. With both girls, despite my guilt over not giving them breastmilk, I felt so much closer and more bonded to them when I didn't have to nurse them. It was like a weight had been lifted off of me and I could finally just enjoy my children.

I know this sounds horrible, especially to those who hold breastfeeding so dear, but I feel like if I am going to get over this stuff and actually try and breastfeed successfully, I need to face all of my issues. I nursed for such brief periods that IHNI if I would have come to enjoy it or not, you know? All I know right now is I didn't enjoy it at all, and I am worried about self sabotage coming into play this time as well before I really even give it a honest try.

Did any of you feel this way early on as well? Everyone kept telling me about how it was such an amazing bond and such, and I never felt that. It always felt like a burden. I am hoping that is something I can get over if I can get past the hurdles of the early stages. WDYT?

Let me ask you this... why do you WANT to breastfeed? You sound fairly comfortable with what you did with Anna & Kate, and pretty comfortable with who you are and the way you handle things. If that's the case, then were does the anxiety/pressure come from?

Supafly · Guru

mctex wrote:

Supafly wrote:

Thank you all so much for the support and the confidence!!

I will be honest here-one of the things that worries me the most about breastfeeding is my scheduling nature. I have no desire to change my scheduling nature. I have never not given my kids what they needed by any stretch, but schedules work for me-in all aspects of my life. Not knowing what to expect is something that causes me extreme stress. I kept charts about their eating and sleeping habits when both babies were born, and found Anna's very helpful to me when Kate was born. And sleep is paramount to every mom, but I physically start having bowel issues when I go without sleep. I have never liked going without sleep, obviously, but since my diagnosis, it has been a big problem for me, and definitely causes me anxiety about the newborn sleeping stuff-regardless of feeding method. In all honesty, I do not know that I physically or emotionally can handle only getting bits and pieces of sleep for months on end. My girls both slept through the night by 3 months, but I know a lot of moms whose EBF babies didn't for much longer than that. I know it sounds awful, but I do not think I will be able to manage that. Aside from someone hanging on me all day, which brings about a lot of anxiety as well, this issue is definitely at the forefront of my mind.

So IHNI how to deal with the realities of nursing and the realities of my personality and health, kwim? I mean, nursing every hour sounds like sheer torture to me, even if the baby is a great nurser. I felt a great deal of disconnect with both my girls when I would nurse them, and I am nervous about that too. With both girls, despite my guilt over not giving them breastmilk, I felt so much closer and more bonded to them when I didn't have to nurse them. It was like a weight had been lifted off of me and I could finally just enjoy my children.

I know this sounds horrible, especially to those who hold breastfeeding so dear, but I feel like if I am going to get over this stuff and actually try and breastfeed successfully, I need to face all of my issues. I nursed for such brief periods that IHNI if I would have come to enjoy it or not, you know? All I know right now is I didn't enjoy it at all, and I am worried about self sabotage coming into play this time as well before I really even give it a honest try.

Did any of you feel this way early on as well? Everyone kept telling me about how it was such an amazing bond and such, and I never felt that. It always felt like a burden. I am hoping that is something I can get over if I can get past the hurdles of the early stages. WDYT?

Let me ask you this... why do you WANT to breastfeed? You sound fairly comfortable with what you did with Anna & Kate, and pretty comfortable with who you are and the way you handle things. If that's the case, then were does the anxiety/pressure come from?

A large part of it is because I think breastmilk is better for young babies, assuming it is a safe option. Anna was a bad spitter, and Kate was a huge puker-neither was unhappy per se about their throw up issues-but those things didn't start until they were on formula. I have always thought breastmilk would have been easier on their bellies.

There is also an element of wanting to succeed at it, and to at least get past the beginning part where everyone says it is hard before I decide it isn't for me, does that make sense? I feel like hating it in the first few week isn't necessarily an indication of anything, since the first few weeks can be pretty miserable all around. I think if I had done it for 4 months and still had that feeling of dread everytime I put the baby to the breast, I would feel a lot better about saying I was done with it than if I had only done it for 4 weeks. Especially given that I was far from at my best when I stopped each time, I do think my feelings well could have changed about nursing as the entire situation changed.

strawberryM2424 · Member

I hear there is music designed for breastfeeding. it has helped me. However it is so hard to find good ones. it relaxes me when my little one is crying and it relaxes her well.

Lizzy · Guru

Laura....I don't have much bf advice because i ff both my children. with ivy i wanted to bf, but i was having alot of issues with depression and with the antidepressent and my mood, I was not sure if was going to be able to (honestly, at the time, the thought of it being solely my responsibility to feed her was frightening...I just couldn't overcome the intense fear). well, as it turns out, I LOVED feeding her and always got up with her in the middle of the night, etc. she was great though as she would go right back to sleep after eating. and it was nice having her on a predictable schedule (she ate every three hours). Looking back, i do regret not bf, but I know i did the right thing at the time.

hang in there...no matter what you decide - it will the right decision!!

crystal · Guru

One thing you may want to consider is not exclusively breastfeeding. You could feed the little guy a bottle of formula before bed so that his tummy is nice and full and then you won't have to worry about him not having enough during the night. You could still breastfeed all the other feeds.

If you decided to do that, I would recommend waiting until your milk is more established, like maybe the 6 week mark, or just pump at that time and let Bill give him his night night formula. You could stash the night feedings in the freezer for later.