Pregnant, HIV+, Homeless Woman - 18 years and 6 kids later

Lizzy · Guru

Pregnant, HIV+, Homeless Woman - 18 years and 6 kids later

Lizzy · Guru

This really shook me. I actually can't stop thinking about it and i read it yesterday. i guess I had no idea that poverty existed on that level. I felt so bad for the woman and all that she went through, but it is the children that I felt the most for. I am/was relieved to see that 5 of them were taken, but the last one, Elysa, I felt so bad for her. I can't believe that she will be left in the father's custody. so sad.

also, if you read the prolouge, she talks about the men who are dying of aids in public hospice. the last one's story is so incredibly sad - just heartbreaking. My cousin died of aids and it was an absolutely horrendous death in the final days. My mom cared for him, thankfully, and i am sure he was as comfortable as he could have possibly been. but, this man's story is so horrible.

-- Edited by Lizzy on Sunday 6th of February 2011 11:28:34 PM

supergrover · Guru

This was a really powerful story. Listening to her last phone call with Zach/Jr was heart breaking. It is so easy to judge on the surface that none of this should have happened, especially continuing to have children- but clearly the issues run so much deeper. Stunning to look through the lens of poverty in the land of plenty. I can see why this story stuck with you.

Juanita · Guru

What a tragic story smile

I'm glad the kids got out and are happy, and I hope the last one does as well

It always gets me though, when I read stories like that about such poverty, but yet the parents somehow find the money to smoke and do drugs.

Addiction SUCKS!

Lizzy · Guru

Juanita wrote:

What a tragic story

I'm glad the kids got out and are happy, and I hope the last one does as well

It always gets me though, when I read stories like that about such poverty, but yet the parents somehow find the money to smoke and do drugs.

Addiction SUCKS!

very very true. although lots of times they "trade" services. alot of times they get these things on a barter system. for example, they might trade their prescription drugs.

Juanita · Guru

Lizzy wrote:

Juanita wrote:

What a tragic story

I'm glad the kids got out and are happy, and I hope the last one does as well

It always gets me though, when I read stories like that about such poverty, but yet the parents somehow find the money to smoke and do drugs.

Addiction SUCKS!

very very true. although lots of times they "trade" services. alot of times they get these things on a barter system. for example, they might trade their prescription drugs.

I know, and that deeply, deeply saddens me to know that people are that bad off to do that, instead of EATING

Alicia · Senior Member

Is it bad that I wish the father would of died also? I feel sorry for the little girl.

-- Edited by Alicia on Monday 7th of February 2011 03:58:03 PM

Juni · Guru

I have been thinking about this all day. SO many thoughts have gone through my head. Mostly, when I read stories like these I can't help but wonder why my sister (who would be such a good mom) couldn't get pregnant and yet this woman was able to continuously get pregnant, with a terminal disease, do all sorts of things you aren't supposed to and have (seemingly) healthy children time and time again. I feel sorry for her that she suffered so much as a child and wonder what could have been done to avoid all the pain and heartache. And, if we're being honest, I wonder why they didn't try and step in and try and do some kind of permanent birth control to prevent her from having more kids. Maybe that makes me a bad person because I *do* feel like women should have control over their own bodies but when it comes to the health of a child (and another, and another) my opinion seems to waiver a little bit.

Everytime she talked about her being pregnant again, it was just like, enough already! But, of course, it wasn't surprising. It's hard. I hope the last daughter is in a better home.

Juni · Guru

In regards to having kid after kid - it is such a hard thing to think about and decide how I feel. Because in one sense, they were taken away and put into different homes. For the one son it has been a huge blessing for him and for his adoptive parents. So, you wonder, maybe that was the point. But at the same time, there are SO many children in these situations who do not get that nice, better home and have shitty lives and then go on to repeat the cycle. It's definitely something that makes you think and wonder about though.

mctex · Guru

Wow, that was really powerful.

I don't know that I have many thoughts about what should've happened. I just think it's sad.

Instead, I will bitch about the format of the website and the terrible narration. I'm guessing it's a part of the art. I guess I'm not artistic.

Lizzy · Guru

Alicia wrote:

Is it bad that I wish the father would of died also? I feel sorry for the little girl.

-- Edited by Alicia on Monday 7th of February 2011 03:58:03 PM

i know...i felt the same way. i kept going back to look at hiim thinking wtf?? but she did say that the woman's aunt and uncle were going to share custody. so, maybe that will work out for the best. although, i didn't think they lived in much better conditions.

Lizzy · Guru

Juni wrote:

I have been thinking about this all day. SO many thoughts have gone through my head. Mostly, when I read stories like these I can't help but wonder why my sister (who would be such a good mom) couldn't get pregnant and yet this woman was able to continuously get pregnant, with a terminal disease, do all sorts of things you aren't supposed to and have (seemingly) healthy children time and time again. I feel sorry for her that she suffered so much as a child and wonder what could have been done to avoid all the pain and heartache. And, if we're being honest, I wonder why they didn't try and step in and try and do some kind of permanent birth control to prevent her from having more kids. Maybe that makes me a bad person because I *do* feel like women should have control over their own bodies but when it comes to the health of a child (and another, and another) my opinion seems to waiver a little bit.

Everytime she talked about her being pregnant again, it was just like, enough already! But, of course, it wasn't surprising. It's hard. I hope the last daughter is in a better home.

I knew a girl growing up who had 6 children (she was a prostitute) and each child was taken away. it was really sad that she kept having kids.

-- Edited by Lizzy on Monday 7th of February 2011 09:01:49 PM

LDSMOM · Senior Member

This has reminded me how much I have and how much I have to be grateful for. Even my dad, who's had virtually nothing his entire grown up life, has so much. It's amazing what seeing poverty will do.

Alicia · Senior Member

I don't blame this on poverty. I was one of seven kids and there were times that we went without food, utilities, a home. We moved a lot and there were some places where we lived that I would consider a dump. We had no drugs, alcohol, abuse or terminal illness. For the most part I had a really good childhood and we turned out good.

I keep thinking about the depo shot. If I could I would of paid her to get that shot every 3 months.

mctex · Guru

Alicia, I understand your perspective (and appreciate you sharing it). I was a little confused as to what the "lesson learned" was supposed to be from this, too.

The photographer just kept promising over and over again that she'd "tell her story," as though there was something heroic about it.

Sad, absolutely. But I don't understand the compulsion to tell a sad story as though it has meaning, if that makes sense. I got the sense that the photographer was just saying that so as to suggest she (the photographer) had some sort of altruistic purpose... as opposed to just gawking at misfortune. I mean, it's not like this is a resident of a third world country we're talking about.

Lizzy · Guru

mctex wrote:

Alicia, I understand your perspective (and appreciate you sharing it). I was a little confused as to what the "lesson learned" was supposed to be from this, too.

The photographer just kept promising over and over again that she'd "tell her story," as though there was something heroic about it.

Sad, absolutely. But I don't understand the compulsion to tell a sad story as though it has meaning, if that makes sense. I got the sense that the photographer was just saying that so as to suggest she (the photographer) had some sort of altruistic purpose... as opposed to just gawking at misfortune. I mean, it's not like this is a resident of a third world country we're talking about.

I think the story really highlights our inability (as a society) to make any significant change in the lives of chronic drug users. The reason I asked what everyone thought should have happened was because I was trying to analyze exactly where her road could have been different. Was it the moment she was raped by her stepfather? was it the moment she became homeless? was it the moment she became HIV +?  What about when her first daughter was born? I saw one opportunity to change her life - when she was taken by the salvation army. unfortunately, she moved in with the man who would eventually beat her child thus causing her to lose custody.

we can talk about things that impede on the constitution, ie. mandatory birth control. or abortion but i don't think those things are especially helpful. but, maybe by being more aware of children who might be suffering child abuse and taking action if we see it is an answer. i don't think money is the answer. while she was poor, her main problem was the drug and alcohol abuse. so, maybe more free or low cost drug programs is the answer.

My cousin was a drug addict who eventually lost her life to drugs, but she also lost her child to the foster care system. and i will say to this day that she loved her daughter as much as I love ivy, but she could not stop using drugs long enough to meet the requirements imposed by teh court to regain custody.  so many times, these types of cases are looked at as "hopeless" and I have trouble not viewing it that way as well. it is often said that once you start down the road of hard drugs that it leads to either death or imprisonment.   I have seen this many times in my on extended family and the only thing I can say is "there but for the grace of god, go i"

CoffeeQueen · Guru

I get addiction, poverty, etc. I do not get having 6 kids. I mean regardless if she loved them or not. The kids get put into this awful situation.

Juanita · Guru

CoffeeQueen wrote:

I get addiction, poverty, etc. I do not get having 6 kids. I mean regardless if she loved them or not. The kids get put into this awful situation.

yep

i don't get it either and i feel sorry for the kids

mctex · Guru

Lizzy wrote:

mctex wrote:

Alicia, I understand your perspective (and appreciate you sharing it). I was a little confused as to what the "lesson learned" was supposed to be from this, too.

The photographer just kept promising over and over again that she'd "tell her story," as though there was something heroic about it.

Sad, absolutely. But I don't understand the compulsion to tell a sad story as though it has meaning, if that makes sense. I got the sense that the photographer was just saying that so as to suggest she (the photographer) had some sort of altruistic purpose... as opposed to just gawking at misfortune. I mean, it's not like this is a resident of a third world country we're talking about.

I think the story really highlights our inability (as a society) to make any significant change in the lives of chronic drug users. The reason I asked what everyone thought should have happened was because I was trying to analyze exactly where her road could have been different. Was it the moment she was raped by her stepfather? was it the moment she became homeless? was it the moment she became HIV +?  What about when her first daughter was born? I saw one opportunity to change her life - when she was taken by the salvation army. unfortunately, she moved in with the man who would eventually beat her child thus causing her to lose custody.

we can talk about things that impede on the constitution, ie. mandatory birth control. or abortion but i don't think those things are especially helpful. but, maybe by being more aware of children who might be suffering child abuse and taking action if we see it is an answer. i don't think money is the answer. while she was poor, her main problem was the drug and alcohol abuse. so, maybe more free or low cost drug programs is the answer.

My cousin was a drug addict who eventually lost her life to drugs, but she also lost her child to the foster care system. and i will say to this day that she loved her daughter as much as I love ivy, but she could not stop using drugs long enough to meet the requirements imposed by teh court to regain custody.  so many times, these types of cases are looked at as "hopeless" and I have trouble not viewing it that way as well. it is often said that once you start down the road of hard drugs that it leads to either death or imprisonment.   I have seen this many times in my on extended family and the only thing I can say is "there but for the grace of god, go i"

I think the biggest missed opportunity that I saw was that her father didn't get in contact with her sooner.

I don't know, I guess I just came away from it feeling more like this woman had been exploited than feeling like there was a big "aha" moment or any real call to action.

I did see some serious irony in that she had been declared an unfit mother but was employed by the state of California as a childcare worker...

Lizzy · Guru

CoffeeQueen wrote:

I get addiction, poverty, etc. I do not get having 6 kids. I mean regardless if she loved them or not. The kids get put into this awful situation.

yeah, I know a girl who kept having kid after kid and she was a prostitute and addicted to drugs. she finally got some sort of birth control (I am not sure what). she "kept" the first child (her mother and father really cared for her since this girl was in and out of jail and on th streets for most of that time) then, the second and third children were given up for adoption and she kept her fourth child. not sure what is the status of that child. all i know is she is a terrible mom. very very sad.