Writing/spelling question

Alyssa · Guru

Writing/spelling question

beckhamgirls · Senior Member

I'm not really sure when to correct or not, but Mary Beth has a lot of the same type of mistakes.

I learned something interesting at our parent/teacher conference. Her K teacher said that in K they are only concerned with them getting the first and last letter sounds of a word, and don't really focus on the in between (except for the site word list.) For example, the other day MB wrote something to the effect of "I bot flwrs." She got a check+. For the word "bought" she got the first and last letter sound right. This is probably what Ethan's teacher is teaching too - especially since we're both in IN and they follow the same standards.

muffy · Guru

With Tim and Cecile, I always corrected them. I figured it is important to help them. But I always try to say it positively. I tried to avoid saying stuff like "that is nice BUT xx word is spelled this way". Instead, I would give a lot of praise for the effort and say something like " hey, there is a w on the end of snow", and maybe briefly explain how there is a slight "wuh" sound on the end of snow, and that is why there is a w on the end. With English there are a lot of non phonetical spellings (like the word though) and I would explain how even though you could not hear all the letters, they were there.

Cuppycake · Guru

I don't know the exact answer.

I try not to help here, and that's just because Hannah's teacher wants them sounding everything out, even if it isn't correct. Hannah wrote a sentence a few days ago and new it needed a silent e at the end, and the teacher sent home a note asking me not to help her, and had written on her paper the way she thought it should have been spelled by a 5 yo (which was incorrect.)

So, in the interest of sticking to what's going on at school, since I didn't go to college to learn how to do her job, we do what's done there. But I have a high temptation to meddle more, just because I know Hannah will soak it up. (Well, not so much if I tell her, but she will if Joe does.)

CoffeeQueen · Guru

at this age they allow them to write it as they think it should be. it is not so much the spelling yet,but the actual brain development. So, it is not that they are not helping him,but encouraging him and not making it frustrating.

I notice with Allie if I correct her she starts to then lose interest in her writing. I let her write how she wants, but if she asks how to spell, I tell her.

I would say right now to allow him to write. Maybe even ask his teacher so that you are not doing the opposite of how they are doing it. Every teacher is very different.

edited to add that helping with site words or like Megan said words that do not phonetically sound out are good ones to start to help with. The others I would let him sound it out and spell as he thinks it should be.

-- Edited by CoffeeQueen on Monday 10th of January 2011 08:15:28 PM

muffy · Guru

beckhamgirls wrote:

I'm not really sure when to correct or not, but Mary Beth has a lot of the same type of mistakes.

I learned something interesting at our parent/teacher conference. Her K teacher said that in K they are only concerned with them getting the first and last letter sounds of a word, and don't really focus on the in between (except for the site word list.) For example, the other day MB wrote something to the effect of "I bot flwrs." She got a check+. For the word "bought" she got the first and last letter sound right. This is probably what Ethan's teacher is teaching too - especially since we're both in IN and they follow the same standards.

That is interesting and makes sense. I don't know if it makes much difference, but in Luxembourg they don't teach reading or "proper" handwriting until first grade. However when they do, they are quite strict (or shall in say consistent?) in making sure the kids do it right.

CoffeeQueen · Guru

there is a lot of debate on the whole spelling/writing too early. it all has to do with the development and the brain hemisphere. so, you could read on it if interested.

it really depends on what they are teaching. are they using a phonic type system?

Allie's school is like Megans in that they do not "teach" writing in a sense till 1st. It is a belief that kids should learn to read well before they learn to spell. So, if that is the case, then gauge Ethan's reading ability. This is why they allow them to write it as they sound it out. They do a lot of writing, but not correcting. The sounding out is the most important right now.

I have been reading a ton on the brain and I am so intrigued on teaching methods. I know many use to teach on just rote style.

Here is a little glimpse at what I am talking about and I know not everyone believes this, but it is kind of what I believe.

"here is a widely-held belief that if we just start teaching children to write, read, and spell in preschool, they will become better writers, readers, and spellers by the time they reach the first and second grades. This is, however, not true. The truth is that children only should be taught to write, read, and spell when their neurological pathways for writing, reading, and spelling have fully formed. There are many neuropsychologists, developmental specialists, occupational therapists and teachers who are concerned that our current trend in this country of pushing “academics” in preschool and kindergarten will result in even greater increases in the number of children, particularly boys, diagnosed with attentional problems and visual processing types of learning disabilities.
In order for children to be able to sit still, pay attention, and remember abstract shapes, like letters and numbers, they first need to have developed their proprioceptive system."

kdrew · Guru

Ryan's Kindergarten teacher told us that they don't correct them.

They want them to get a feel for writing things the way they sound to them and then in 1st grade they work on the important stuff.

She showed us his journal from the beginning of the year compared to the end and he had improved so much.

She was an expert at translating what they wrote. She said that if she can decifer what they're talking about then it's all good. She said she could tell when certain students were having trouble.

I guess being a K teacher for 20+ years gives you that talent. I couldn't figure any of it out.

Alyssa · Guru

ok this makes a lot of sense to me, especially the first and last letter thing.

Ethan does ask for help, which is why I don't want to ignore him. After he wrote "sno" he asked me if that was it. So I guess if he asks, I'll provide guidance but otherwise let him do his thing.

It's funny--he doesn't read that much at home, he prefers me to read to him and if I push it, it's a fight but he LOVES writing. I think because it's something he can do in his room when he's supposed to be sleeping to avoid bedtime.

JenM · Senior Member

We don't correct here either. In K, they just focus on getting them to spell this phonetically. If they can do that, it's pretty good lol. Jillian still isn't big on writing her own captions on stuff she does at home, and honestly they don't do a lot of it in class either? Which is different from the school Ryan went to (He went to public for K and 1st, now they are both at a charter). She has spelling words every week and they work on papers using those words....

But, Ryan is a different story. He's 2nd grade and is a pretty good speller, but if he spells something incorrectly, I will correct him.

I LOVE reading sentences from the younger kiddos when stuff is spelled wrong lol. SO cute.

muffy · Guru

CoffeeQueen wrote:

there is a lot of debate on the whole spelling/writing too early. it all has to do with the development and the brain hemisphere. so, you could read on it if interested.

it really depends on what they are teaching. are they using a phonic type system?

Allie's school is like Megans in that they do not "teach" writing in a sense till 1st. It is a belief that kids should learn to read well before they learn to spell. So, if that is the case, then gauge Ethan's reading ability. This is why they allow them to write it as they sound it out. They do a lot of writing, but not correcting. The sounding out is the most important right now.

I have been reading a ton on the brain and I am so intrigued on teaching methods. I know many use to teach on just rote style.

Here is a little glimpse at what I am talking about and I know not everyone believes this, but it is kind of what I believe.

"here is a widely-held belief that if we just start teaching children to write, read, and spell in preschool, they will become better writers, readers, and spellers by the time they reach the first and second grades. This is, however, not true. The truth is that children only should be taught to write, read, and spell when their neurological pathways for writing, reading, and spelling have fully formed. There are many neuropsychologists, developmental specialists, occupational therapists and teachers who are concerned that our current trend in this country of pushing “academics” in preschool and kindergarten will result in even greater increases in the number of children, particularly boys, diagnosed with attentional problems and visual processing types of learning disabilities.
In order for children to be able to sit still, pay attention, and remember abstract shapes, like letters and numbers, they first need to have developed their proprioceptive system."

Very interesting. Can you link more info?

I wonder how they teach handwriting in the us? Over here,I find it much more strict then when I was a child (hey, I grew up in rural Ohio, maybe that had something to do with it lol!)

Here, they use a smallish notebook, like 6" by 8". And it is checked graph paper, each square about 1/4 inch. And the kids use ink pen. They pretty much never use pencil ever in school. They teach each letter. If they teach, say the D, they first will draw rows and rows of straight lines, a few squares high. Then they will draw rows and rows of the hook side only. Then they will put them together and do rows and rows of the whold D. And the teacher will cross off in red pen the drawings that are too off standard. They teach similar letters with similar lines in clusters. It's more about the flow of the writing without linking it to the sounds. And funny, they teach reading at the same time, in a different letter order, but it turns out ok. Also, first and second grade are a continuous program with the same 12 kids and teacher and they don't get through the entire alphabet writing/reading curriculum till the end of the second year. (including proper scroll-y cursive too.)

How does it work in the us?

Do theybdo it like this in the us?

Dddiii · Guru

I'm blown away by how far along some of your kiddos are!

Meghan is definitely not "there" yet. She writes sentences but we have to spell everything out for her or she copies it from something.

She's really just now getting interested in reading and writing so I'm hoping she'll catch up quick!

Alyssa · Guru

Dddiii wrote:

I'm blown away by how far along some of your kiddos are!

Meghan is definitely not "there" yet. She writes sentences but we have to spell everything out for her or she copies it from something.

She's really just now getting interested in reading and writing so I'm hoping she'll catch up quick!

Di, I'm telling you Ethan is only interested when he can use it as an excuse to avoid bedtime. His teacher is accessing their reading levels this week and I have no idea how he will do.

kdrew · Guru

Dddiii wrote:

I'm blown away by how far along some of your kiddos are!

Meghan is definitely not "there" yet. She writes sentences but we have to spell everything out for her or she copies it from something.

She's really just now getting interested in reading and writing so I'm hoping she'll catch up quick!

Sarah is nowhere near any of this.

She still has trouble spelling her own name and is definitely not reading.

SO glad I held her back.

Juni · Guru

Dddiii wrote:

I'm blown away by how far along some of your kiddos are!

Meghan is definitely not "there" yet. She writes sentences but we have to spell everything out for her or she copies it from something.

She's really just now getting interested in reading and writing so I'm hoping she'll catch up quick!

I don't even think you need to look at it as catching up. I don't think she's behind at all. Gavin loves to write - his penmanship is great! I love watching him write. But he is not writing sentences on his own. He brought a paper home from school with water on it and had spelled it on his own - "wodr." I was so freakin' proud. I am not worried that he is just learning to do this - I mean, that's what Kindergarten is for as far as I am concerned.

Gavin copies things all the time. He is just starting to read very simple books and I am such a proud mommy watching him do that. :)

Alicia · Senior Member

Kidwriting is used at Raven's school. It is phonics and whole language. Children write using the letter sounds, sight words and other familiar words that they know. They become writers/story tellers from day one. In their journals they draw a picture and then write about it. They are shown correct writing(called adult writing) under the kids writing. Their writing is never corrected. For handwriting they use Handwriting Without Tears.

http://www.kidwriting.com/

http://www.hwtears.com/

Supafly · Guru

Juni wrote:

Dddiii wrote:

I'm blown away by how far along some of your kiddos are!

Meghan is definitely not "there" yet. She writes sentences but we have to spell everything out for her or she copies it from something.

She's really just now getting interested in reading and writing so I'm hoping she'll catch up quick!

I don't even think you need to look at it as catching up. I don't think she's behind at all. Gavin loves to write - his penmanship is great! I love watching him write. But he is not writing sentences on his own. He brought a paper home from school with water on it and had spelled it on his own - "wodr." I was so freakin' proud. I am not worried that he is just learning to do this - I mean, that's what Kindergarten is for as far as I am concerned.
Gavin copies things all the time. He is just starting to read very simple books and I am such a proud mommy watching him do that. :)

ITA with Juni, Di. I don't think she needs to catch up at all. The kids really progress at such different rates and have such different interests at this age. They will all figure it out.

As for the OQ-Anna's teacher seems to write corrections for some words, but not all, and is more concerned with using upper/lower case letters appropriately, beginning letter sounds, punctuation, etc.

Anna came home with a journal paper today that made me laugh and cringe at the same time. One of the sentences said, "I eta (eat) in the can." I asked her about it, wondering if secretly she is taking her food into the bathroom with her, and she said because she eats canned green beans a lot. So it made me cringe that I give them too many canned veggies, and lmao that she said she eats in the can. LOL. There have been a few that really made me chuckle. I am totally saving them.

And her drawings at the tops of the papers hardly ever have to do with her writing. After talking about wearing a hat and eating in the can, she drew a picture of she and Rapunzel. (spelled Rpunzl)