My DS failed his geometry final. He passed the class but had to pass the final to get credit. He can repeat the class next year or go to summer school. If he went to summer school the highest grade he can get is a 65 D.
He went the whole year without passing a test. His classwork/homework and quiz grades was the only reason he was passing the class before the final. Part of me thinks he needs to take the whole class over and the other part thinks he should go to summer school for punishment.
The problem isn't only with geometry. The only class I didn't have to bug him about was English. He loved his teacher but there's noway he hated all his other teachers and even if he did that is no excuse for bad grades. I don't know what to do to make things click. He had to keep a vocab journal for biology for the whole year. He did that but didn't turn it in. It was worth 700 pts!
DH thinks he should be without everything for the whole summer(no friends, screen time, going anywhere). I don't know what his punishment should be but I can't see taking the whole summer away from him.
Should he do summer school or repeat? What punishment would you give him?
-- Edited by Alicia on Saturday 5th of June 2010 07:39:36 PM
I really don't know what I would do but I would lean toward summer school. That way he wouldn't exactly be grounded the whole summer but he'd still have to pay the consequences for not doing his work.
I have been where you are with my ds. It was never about ability, but more about his willingness to do what he thought was not necessary. We made him go to summer school. Here is why.
1. If he goes to summer school it is like saying you still won't get out of the work and since you didn't do it then, you have to do it now at the loss of some of your free time.
2. By going to summer school, he will be able to take the next higher up math class. This way he does not start spiraling and end up with too little math or whatever else.
3. Summer school happens fast. For some kids, especially ones that are less than enthusiastic about school, they actually learn more and keeps interest better. I honestly think that my ds learned a lot in summer school. Partly because it was repeating the material and partly because he didn't have time to slack.
4. It also makes it clear that you expect him to do well and think that he is capable. By not letting him slide and jumping on it right away you get the message across before too much time sets in and it no longer seems like a big deal.
As for the taking everything away, be careful. I learned the hard way not to back myself in the corner. If you take everything away then you lose your leverage. When I tried that with my ds it bit me in the ass hard! At that point his thought was, you took everything I have so what do I care. The earn the privlege back theory did just the opposite.
On the other hand, you might think of ways to reward good grades in summer school if that works for him. It is so hard sometimes with teenagers. I hope you figure it out. The good news is it doesn't last forever. There were times when I thought mine would never make it through high school. He did and now is about to graduate with a philosophy degree. So, there is hope (not saying he will go down that path, but about graduating and getting some sort of education).
Why can he not get a better grade the a 65? Am I reading that right? If he does the whole class over again in summer school, he should be able to get a good grade. So, maybe I'm not understanding that part.
My nephew is in a very similar situation. He didn't do most of the homework. Well, he'd do a lot of it, and when he did, he just plain didn't turn it in. He passed every test, but without the points from he homework, He couldn't get above D- for most of his classes. The teachers all agree, he isn't stupid. Just lazy. I personally think he needs to be tested for a learning disability, but they haven't done it. Poor kid does have a ton of crap going on at home. He and his Dad are losing their house. His mom decided she was gay and left my brother. She bought a house with her girlfriend and is still on the deed to the old house. Since she made a ton of money and my brother worked part time and was the primary care giver of my nephew, the bank just looks at her income and won't let her off. She sees her son a couple of times a month. It's cruddy.
Sorry. Didn't mean to run on.
I don't think you can take his whole summer, but he does need to understand how important this is. If that means that you go to school with him and watch him turn in his homework, then that's what you'll do. That shame may make him turn around quick. LOL.
My brother did have the teachers email him with assignments, and then my mom would do help him do it while my brother had to be at work. But, that still didn't get the work into the teachers hands, KWIM?
I have been where you are with my ds. It was never about ability, but more about his willingness to do what he thought was not necessary. We made him go to summer school. Here is why.
1. If he goes to summer school it is like saying you still won't get out of the work and since you didn't do it then, you have to do it now at the loss of some of your free time.
2. By going to summer school, he will be able to take the next higher up math class. This way he does not start spiraling and end up with too little math or whatever else.
3. Summer school happens fast. For some kids, especially ones that are less than enthusiastic about school, they actually learn more and keeps interest better. I honestly think that my ds learned a lot in summer school. Partly because it was repeating the material and partly because he didn't have time to slack.
4. It also makes it clear that you expect him to do well and think that he is capable. By not letting him slide and jumping on it right away you get the message across before too much time sets in and it no longer seems like a big deal.
As for the taking everything away, be careful. I learned the hard way not to back myself in the corner. If you take everything away then you lose your leverage. When I tried that with my ds it bit me in the ass hard! At that point his thought was, you took everything I have so what do I care. The earn the privlege back theory did just the opposite.
On the other hand, you might think of ways to reward good grades in summer school if that works for him. It is so hard sometimes with teenagers. I hope you figure it out. The good news is it doesn't last forever. There were times when I thought mine would never make it through high school. He did and now is about to graduate with a philosophy degree. So, there is hope (not saying he will go down that path, but about graduating and getting some sort of education).
Number 2 is the reason I want to send him to summer school. My problem is summer school could be very short. It's computer based and all he has to do is work on the areas he failed on the test and then take the test over. That could be less than a week. I was hoping summer school would be the punishment but that isn't much(I need to ask if I can make him go through the whole program.).
The part in red is what we're disagreeing with. DH doesn't get it. Why try if you take everything away? My niece has been grounded since last year due to her grades and she still didn't imporve them and is now grounded all summer and will be until she gets her first report card. Very extreme IMO.
Why can he not get a better grade the a 65? Am I reading that right? If he does the whole class over again in summer school, he should be able to get a good grade. So, maybe I'm not understanding that part.
My nephew is in a very similar situation. He didn't do most of the homework. Well, he'd do a lot of it, and when he did, he just plain didn't turn it in. He passed every test, but without the points from he homework, He couldn't get above D- for most of his classes. The teachers all agree, he isn't stupid. Just lazy. I personally think he needs to be tested for a learning disability, but they haven't done it. Poor kid does have a ton of crap going on at home. He and his Dad are losing their house. His mom decided she was gay and left my brother. She bought a house with her girlfriend and is still on the deed to the old house. Since she made a ton of money and my brother worked part time and was the primary care giver of my nephew, the bank just looks at her income and won't let her off. She sees her son a couple of times a month. It's cruddy.
Sorry. Didn't mean to run on.
I don't think you can take his whole summer, but he does need to understand how important this is. If that means that you go to school with him and watch him turn in his homework, then that's what you'll do. That shame may make him turn around quick. LOL.
My brother did have the teachers email him with assignments, and then my mom would do help him do it while my brother had to be at work. But, that still didn't get the work into the teachers hands, KWIM?
Summer school isn't a do over like I thought it would be. It's just to get the credit and 65 is the lowest D. This is on his school website.
Summer Prep
Students who have earned a final average of 55-64% in a core subject are eligible to complete a shortened course for credit recovery.Students will be given an individual study plan focusing on gaps in understanding through the use of PLATO.PLATO is a computer-based program with lessons, quizzes and tests based upon core content.Upon successful completion of the modules outlined in the individual study plan, the student will retake the course final, and will need to pass the final in order to recover the credit.
Credit Recovery
All students who have failed a class with a grade of 54% or lower may enroll for credit recovery.Students in credit recovery will need to complete the entire PLATO curriculum for the desired course.Upon successful completion of the modules outlined in for the course, the student will retake and pass the course final in order to recover the credit.
Please note:All courses must be finished by June 25th, including taking the final.
Upon successful completion of the course work on PLATO and passing the final exam
students will earn a 65%, D- and receive credit in the course.
i think if it were a different skill building class (ie, algebra I before taking algebra II or pre-calc before taking calc), i'd make him retake it next year. but with the geometry, it sort of course specific and they touch on very little of that again in his future math classes.
does the school make you pay for summer school? my school charges $300 per class for summer school. if yours charges, can you make ds pay you back for it by working off that fee somehow?
here are some of my thoughts...some are hindsight 20/20 type thoughts, but maybe could be useful moving into next year.
if he was failing tests all year, were you aware of it? what was being done at that time? can you check his grades online regularly from home? if so, is there a discipline enforced throughout the year or is it just something he's facing now that he's failing for the year?
i'm wondering if you can force him to do some sort of online studying at home to get him into a school routine that will allow him to earn privileges? find some sort of online quiz on whatever topics you want and make him complete the activities daily to earn his freedom.
what i would be worried about if i were you (and i can't remember how old he is) is that as he moves through high school, his apathy will only get worse and those are the students i see dropping out. i had a senior drop out 3 weeks ago - that was only 5 weeks before graduation!
i think if it were a different skill building class (ie, algebra I before taking algebra II or pre-calc before taking calc), i'd make him retake it next year. but with the geometry, it sort of course specific and they touch on very little of that again in his future math classes.
does the school make you pay for summer school? my school charges $300 per class for summer school. if yours charges, can you make ds pay you back for it by working off that fee somehow?
here are some of my thoughts...some are hindsight 20/20 type thoughts, but maybe could be useful moving into next year.
if he was failing tests all year, were you aware of it? what was being done at that time? can you check his grades online regularly from home? if so, is there a discipline enforced throughout the year or is it just something he's facing now that he's failing for the year?
i'm wondering if you can force him to do some sort of online studying at home to get him into a school routine that will allow him to earn privileges? find some sort of online quiz on whatever topics you want and make him complete the activities daily to earn his freedom.
what i would be worried about if i were you (and i can't remember how old he is) is that as he moves through high school, his apathy will only get worse and those are the students i see dropping out. i had a senior drop out 3 weeks ago - that was only 5 weeks before graduation!
I was hoping you would respond.
I decided to have him do summer school. It cost 150 and he hasn't got an allowance in forever so he will have to do something to work it off.
I keep up with his grades online but it depends of the person posting them and she only did at progress report/report card time. The common test aren't even allowed to come home so I didn't know about them until I saw his grades. I scheduled a conference after first report card and she said his test grades showed an understanding of the material. She said all he needed to do was study more.
He has been disciplined on and off all school year due to grades. We are thinking about starting out the school year with nothing and adding things back based on grades and turning things in which is his biggest problem(except in geometry). He seem to do better with short term goals and discipline. We lost him this year.
He just finished his freshman year. The red is what we worry about also. He will turn 18 the first month of school and can drop out whenever he wants. I just hope something clicks before then and he doesn't screw up his GPA anymore.
I've never heard of summer school like that. I only know about the kind where you go everyday, retake the whole course, and improve your grade. You'd think the school would want kids to be able to get above a 65%.
What does he want to do? Will he be able to make some money to pay you back? I'd make him pay for the cost of summer school. That is a big expence and drives in the fact that he didn't do what he needed to do, and now HE has to pay for it.
i think if it were a different skill building class (ie, algebra I before taking algebra II or pre-calc before taking calc), i'd make him retake it next year. but with the geometry, it sort of course specific and they touch on very little of that again in his future math classes.
does the school make you pay for summer school? my school charges $300 per class for summer school. if yours charges, can you make ds pay you back for it by working off that fee somehow?
here are some of my thoughts...some are hindsight 20/20 type thoughts, but maybe could be useful moving into next year.
if he was failing tests all year, were you aware of it? what was being done at that time? can you check his grades online regularly from home? if so, is there a discipline enforced throughout the year or is it just something he's facing now that he's failing for the year?
i'm wondering if you can force him to do some sort of online studying at home to get him into a school routine that will allow him to earn privileges? find some sort of online quiz on whatever topics you want and make him complete the activities daily to earn his freedom.
what i would be worried about if i were you (and i can't remember how old he is) is that as he moves through high school, his apathy will only get worse and those are the students i see dropping out. i had a senior drop out 3 weeks ago - that was only 5 weeks before graduation!
I was hoping you would respond.
I decided to have him do summer school. It cost 150 and he hasn't got an allowance in forever so he will have to do something to work it off.
I keep up with his grades online but it depends of the person posting them and she only did at progress report/report card time. The common test aren't even allowed to come home so I didn't know about them until I saw his grades. I scheduled a conference after first report card and she said his test grades showed an understanding of the material. She said all he needed to do was study more.
He has been disciplined on and off all school year due to grades. We are thinking about starting out the school year with nothing and adding things back based on grades and turning things in which is his biggest problem(except in geometry). He seem to do better with short term goals and discipline. We lost him this year.
He just finished his freshman year. The red is what we worry about also. He will turn 18 the first month of school and can drop out whenever he wants. I just hope something clicks before then and he doesn't screw up his GPA anymore.
we're about to go do baths, but here's a quick response for now...
re: green - if that were my school, parents would be calling the supervisor to complain. for future reference, i'd find out the school's policy regarding updating grades. the whole point of having grades online is to keep the parents in the loop. i can guarantee that if i didn't update grades for more than 2 weeks, i'd have parents emailing me to find out why.
re: red - wtf. if he's failing the tests, how can he be demonstrating understanding of the material? imo, if she can tell that from a FAILING test, the assessment is not valid. he should be passing if she can tell that from the assessment.
he will be 18 as a sophomore? that is dangerous. have you met with his guidance counselor? i would do that (both with and without him) so you are all on the same page about keeping him focused and not giving him any idea that anyone would "allow" him to drop out.
i think if it were a different skill building class (ie, algebra I before taking algebra II or pre-calc before taking calc), i'd make him retake it next year. but with the geometry, it sort of course specific and they touch on very little of that again in his future math classes.
does the school make you pay for summer school? my school charges $300 per class for summer school. if yours charges, can you make ds pay you back for it by working off that fee somehow?
here are some of my thoughts...some are hindsight 20/20 type thoughts, but maybe could be useful moving into next year.
if he was failing tests all year, were you aware of it? what was being done at that time? can you check his grades online regularly from home? if so, is there a discipline enforced throughout the year or is it just something he's facing now that he's failing for the year?
i'm wondering if you can force him to do some sort of online studying at home to get him into a school routine that will allow him to earn privileges? find some sort of online quiz on whatever topics you want and make him complete the activities daily to earn his freedom.
what i would be worried about if i were you (and i can't remember how old he is) is that as he moves through high school, his apathy will only get worse and those are the students i see dropping out. i had a senior drop out 3 weeks ago - that was only 5 weeks before graduation!
I was hoping you would respond.
I decided to have him do summer school. It cost 150 and he hasn't got an allowance in forever so he will have to do something to work it off.
I keep up with his grades online but it depends of the person posting them and she only did at progress report/report card time. The common test aren't even allowed to come home so I didn't know about them until I saw his grades. I scheduled a conference after first report card and she said his test grades showed an understanding of the material. She said all he needed to do was study more.
He has been disciplined on and off all school year due to grades. We are thinking about starting out the school year with nothing and adding things back based on grades and turning things in which is his biggest problem(except in geometry). He seem to do better with short term goals and discipline. We lost him this year.
He just finished his freshman year. The red is what we worry about also. He will turn 18 the first month of school and can drop out whenever he wants. I just hope something clicks before then and he doesn't screw up his GPA anymore.
we're about to go do baths, but here's a quick response for now...
re: green - if that were my school, parents would be calling the supervisor to complain. for future reference, i'd find out the school's policy regarding updating grades. the whole point of having grades online is to keep the parents in the loop. i can guarantee that if i didn't update grades for more than 2 weeks, i'd have parents emailing me to find out why.
re: red - wtf. if he's failing the tests, how can he be demonstrating understanding of the material? imo, if she can tell that from a FAILING test, the assessment is not valid. he should be passing if she can tell that from the assessment.
he will be 18 as a sophomore? that is dangerous. have you met with his guidance counselor? i would do that (both with and without him) so you are all on the same page about keeping him focused and not giving him any idea that anyone would "allow" him to drop out.
bbl.
I meant the first month of his senior year. Didn't mean to leave that part out. Keeping the grades updated has been a problem in several of his classes. He has several that put assignments up ahead of time, what they're missing, and keeps up with the grades. Then he has several that dumps them in all at once when reports go out. I will keep what you said in mind for next year.
His counselor said we can have it set up to where he has to write homework/test info down and the teacher has to sign it. I guess that could be part of his IEP. I know that would help me out a lot.
i think if it were a different skill building class (ie, algebra I before taking algebra II or pre-calc before taking calc), i'd make him retake it next year. but with the geometry, it sort of course specific and they touch on very little of that again in his future math classes.
does the school make you pay for summer school? my school charges $300 per class for summer school. if yours charges, can you make ds pay you back for it by working off that fee somehow?
here are some of my thoughts...some are hindsight 20/20 type thoughts, but maybe could be useful moving into next year.
if he was failing tests all year, were you aware of it? what was being done at that time? can you check his grades online regularly from home? if so, is there a discipline enforced throughout the year or is it just something he's facing now that he's failing for the year?
i'm wondering if you can force him to do some sort of online studying at home to get him into a school routine that will allow him to earn privileges? find some sort of online quiz on whatever topics you want and make him complete the activities daily to earn his freedom.
what i would be worried about if i were you (and i can't remember how old he is) is that as he moves through high school, his apathy will only get worse and those are the students i see dropping out. i had a senior drop out 3 weeks ago - that was only 5 weeks before graduation!
I was hoping you would respond.
I decided to have him do summer school. It cost 150 and he hasn't got an allowance in forever so he will have to do something to work it off.
I keep up with his grades online but it depends of the person posting them and she only did at progress report/report card time. The common test aren't even allowed to come home so I didn't know about them until I saw his grades. I scheduled a conference after first report card and she said his test grades showed an understanding of the material. She said all he needed to do was study more.
He has been disciplined on and off all school year due to grades. We are thinking about starting out the school year with nothing and adding things back based on grades and turning things in which is his biggest problem(except in geometry). He seem to do better with short term goals and discipline. We lost him this year.
He just finished his freshman year. The red is what we worry about also. He will turn 18 the first month of school and can drop out whenever he wants. I just hope something clicks before then and he doesn't screw up his GPA anymore.
we're about to go do baths, but here's a quick response for now...
re: green - if that were my school, parents would be calling the supervisor to complain. for future reference, i'd find out the school's policy regarding updating grades. the whole point of having grades online is to keep the parents in the loop. i can guarantee that if i didn't update grades for more than 2 weeks, i'd have parents emailing me to find out why.
re: red - wtf. if he's failing the tests, how can he be demonstrating understanding of the material? imo, if she can tell that from a FAILING test, the assessment is not valid. he should be passing if she can tell that from the assessment.
he will be 18 as a sophomore? that is dangerous. have you met with his guidance counselor? i would do that (both with and without him) so you are all on the same page about keeping him focused and not giving him any idea that anyone would "allow" him to drop out.
bbl.
I meant the first month of his senior year. Didn't mean to leave that part out. Keeping the grades updated has been a problem in several of his classes. He has several that put assignments up ahead of time, what they're missing, and keeps up with the grades. Then he has several that dumps them in all at once when reports go out. I will keep what you said in mind for next year.
His counselor said we can have it set up to where he has to write homework/test info down and the teacher has to sign it. I guess that could be part of his IEP. I know that would help me out a lot.
ok, a couple of things about that...
first of all, unless ds will go to the teachers with the HW written down and the teachers just have to initial, it's not going to work. and from my experience, the kids do it for a few days and then it's not enforced. the teacher has too much to remember if the kid doesn't remember. i would always remember that about a period in the day later, which is too late obviously.
is he just forgetting to turn in the work or is he not doing it? i have a few students whose IEPs allow them an extra day or 2 to turn work in b/c they simply forget to turn it in. he could have that inputted to his IEP.
also, i think i've mentioned this in another thread, but i have a few parents who do weekly emails. they ask for input from the previous week and any available info for the coming week. when i'm on the ball, i can attach homework assignments and give them reading schedules, etc. i also can tell them when quizzes and tests will be so the parents can enforce studying at home. having the parent email me takes the burden off of me (to be perfectly honest, i just have too much on my plate most days), but having the email in my inbox reminds me to reply, which i do the same day.
-- Edited by apies on Sunday 6th of June 2010 07:24:47 PM
-- Edited by apies on Sunday 6th of June 2010 07:26:15 PM
is he diagnosed as LD? just wondering about the IEP and what they will allow...
if he's doing the classwork & homework, but failing the tests, i'm wondering why he doesn't have "retake failed assessments" as part of his IEP. almost every student i teach who has an IEP (and for me personally, that is about 60 out of 150) has a modification allowing him/her to retest on any failing assessment after remediation with the 2 grades averaged together. in extreme cases, the 2nd test score prevails, but that is rare.
i wonder if you could contact his case worker, schedule an IEP review and address the low test scores issue to have this put in his IEP.
is he diagnosed as LD? just wondering about the IEP and what they will allow...
if he's doing the classwork & homework, but failing the tests, i'm wondering why he doesn't have "retake failed assessments" as part of his IEP. almost every student i teach who has an IEP (and for me personally, that is about 60 out of 150) has a modification allowing him/her to retest on any failing assessment after remediation with the 2 grades averaged together. in extreme cases, the 2nd test score prevails, but that is rare.
i wonder if you could contact his case worker, schedule an IEP review and address the low test scores issue to have this put in his IEP.
He has no LD. He's never had an IEP before so maybe she didn't mean that. I will have to talk to her about that at the meeting. For geometry she only does classwork(no homework) so that is the reason his classwork grade was so good. If he has to bring it home it doesn't get done. For biology he would do the lab but wouldn't finish and turn in the paperwork that went with it. One of his problems is lack of organization which I've tried to help him with but he doesn't stick to it.
He would of had an A or B in every class(except geometry) if he didn't have all those 0's. He doesn't try or care. I'm definitely going to do the emails with his teachers for next year. Hopefully I can stay on top of it until something clicks for him.
Alicia, this sounds so very familar to me. Alot of what you described we went through. We also had trouble with the assignments and information being posted on the internet.
April is right about the email. I found that to be the most effective tool. I made a folder in my email and every Thursday or Friday I did a mass email saying I would like to know how things were going, possible upcoming tests and assignments, attitude, or anything else I could think of. Some teachers are not good at responding, but for those teachers a few phone calls asking for the updates usually made them more responsive to emails.
My ds had an October birthday and was 18 his senior year. I don't know what will work for you, but somehow my ds believed he wasn't able to drop out of school.
I think it's good you are making him pay you back for school. I think your idea about earning privlages are good, but once again I would make sure he has some more basic ones. You can emblish on what he has (raising curfew from 9 to 10) or if need be take more away. The hardest trick if finding out what is worse for him than not passing a class and making that the ultimate punishment.
Alicia, this sounds so very familar to me. Alot of what you described we went through. We also had trouble with the assignments and information being posted on the internet.
April is right about the email. I found that to be the most effective tool. I made a folder in my email and every Thursday or Friday I did a mass email saying I would like to know how things were going, possible upcoming tests and assignments, attitude, or anything else I could think of. Some teachers are not good at responding, but for those teachers a few phone calls asking for the updates usually made them more responsive to emails.
My ds had an October birthday and was 18 his senior year. I don't know what will work for you, but somehow my ds believed he wasn't able to drop out of school.
I think it's good you are making him pay you back for school. I think your idea about earning privlages are good, but once again I would make sure he has some more basic ones. You can emblish on what he has (raising curfew from 9 to 10) or if need be take more away. The hardest trick if finding out what is worse for him than not passing a class and making that the ultimate punishment.
Good luck. I know it's not easy.
I know having a drivers license is connected to grades and that made a big difference with my nephew. Stephen can go for his permit in august of this year so that can be an incentive for him. I'm for sure going to send out an email once I find out his schedule for next year. I can give them so info about him and open the door for future communications.
