momsquawk has me convinced i am about to croke...

CoffeeQueen · Guru

RE: momsquawk has me convinced i am about to croke...

Lizzy · Guru

mctex wrote:

Lizzy wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

Kelly. Do not be silly. Do not stop being who you are or doing what you feel passionate about. I have made just as many posts. People who do not want to or who do not like it can opt to not join in. I find it refreshing to actually have some meaningful and helpfully info that will make me a better person.

As you see from posts that many people like them and you are helping people.

I will step in here to say that statements like "make me a better person' is where i see a problem. see, i don't think it makes you a "better person" b/c you eat organic food or even "healthy" food. I just think it makes you a person who makes different choices than other people. there is no moral attachment to it, idt. i don't feel like anyone should be made to feel bad b/c they make different food choices. ( I still remember a few years ago when Hiker Jen made a post equating the eating of an occasional bologna & mayo sandwich to child abuse --and that has stood out for me siince then)

(not trying to attack anyone, just pointing out that statements like that are ones that might make people feel bad and they shouldn't, imo.)
eta that i just realized that the reference to better may be in reference to yourself, ie comparing your own actions and not a reflection on anyone else

-- Edited by Lizzy on Wednesday 10th of February 2010 11:07:08 AM

Let's take this on a different HT tangent... LOL

I completely agree with the blue. People are far more than the choices they make, food included. And everyone deserves be accepted and respected.

Regarding the red, though, I'm not sure what you meant here, but if you're implying that there are not "good" and "bad" food choices, merely "different ones" -- that I'm going to disagree with. (I'm guessing that's probably not what you meant, but your use of the word "different" instead of "bad" was confusing to me.) A person who makes bad choices is not somehow lesser of a person, because none of us are perfect. But their choices are BAD, not different.

And regarding the whole sentiment -- my opinion about all of this changes wildly if we go to a single payer healthcare system, which is my biggest problem with the concept. If our society is so clearly and directly impacted through the choices that an individual is making, I think it's totally unreasonable to expect that same society would sit idle and accepting of those bad choices.

Said more succinctly -- if I'm paying for someone else's healthcare, it is my business what they do, because it does impact me directly.

Just food (healthy or junk, I'm not sure) for thought.

i typed out a long reply...but really don't want to take this topic any further. although i do agree with your opinon about universal healthcare. it will be interesting to see how that takes shape in america.

-- Edited by Lizzy on Wednesday 10th of February 2010 01:52:31 PM

mctex · Guru

Juni wrote:

Kelly - I'm sorry you're feeling bad and feel like you can't post anymore threads about health but I'm honestly not sure why you feel that way. In no way were the comments that were referenced even specifically about you. We are doing Biggest Loser too and there have been several posts about soda, health, fast food, etc. and I really think it was a comment about all of that in general. So, even if she had messaged her about it I don't see the problem and fully assumed it would have been something like - man I'm glad I'm not the only one, that makes me feel better.

I'm sorry any of this would make you feel bad in the slightest but I'm also totally confused why you would assume it was about *you* and also why it would make you stop posting and sharing information. Many people have expressed a similar desire and have shared information as well. Nobody even pointed out it was your specific thread (and I don't believe it was - I believe it was a combination of many threads) - and even then I think it's all in good fun.

(And I don't know how the tone of this will come across but I don't mean it in a rude or angry way.)

Honestly?

Not to single you out (and I sincerely mean that; I'm replying to you because you've provided a nice segue into my soapbox :)), but after six years of this, you didn't see this coming from a mile away?

Because I did -- a few pages ago.

Whenever people are addressed/described in vague terms (e.g., "MomSquawk", "people who eat unhealthy", etc.), to the extent that someone 1) feels she might somehow be a part of the group that's being described and 2) she GAF about what the person speaking says about them, she's going to get a little paranoid.

It's basic human nature, exacerbated by the medium. In addition to the basic medium challenges (i.e. missing out on tone and expression and the other things that allow us to build trust), it's harder to feel secure in internet friendships, because we don't live close by one another and thus do the friendship-affirming things we do IRL (like invite peeps to our house, etc.).

Like when I read the beginning of the thread, while Corey might have been joking or saying things in a jovial way, I'm not sure everyone else who responded necessarily was, which then makes the overall tone of the thread less jovial than what Corey might have intended. (FTR, I read Leah's post as more lighthearted than Corey's, so I hate that Leah is taking the heat on this. Not than anyone deserves heat at all.)

TBH, I wasn't sure Corey was joking or not (sorry to be talking about you like you're not here, Corey, but it's inevitable in the aftermath of these kinds of threads) -- like I said, humor and passive aggression look a lot alike. If you read the other responses, it's pretty clear that I wasn't the only one that wasn't certain it was a joke.

(I was even less certain she was joking with her "BTW, I know croke is spelled wrong" post. That felt more defensive than jovial.)

Corey indicates she feels close to Kelly. Revisiting points one and two, then -- 1) yes, Kelly does share quite a bit about a green lifestyle (and thus identified with whatever part of "MomSquawk" Corey was describing), and 2) Kelly probably cares a great deal what Corey would think. Voila, instant hurt feelings.

I'm a regular Lucy Van Pelt. That will be 5 cents. biggrin

Michele · Senior Member

i guess i don't agree with the judgment aspect. who is to say it is "bad'? there is no real consenus about what is "bad" for you....scientists can do studies, but again, the judgement of "bad" is not inherent in the study...science is objective, we interpret it and put a label on it, ie good or bad. but, that is for each individual to decide for themselves. if i want to eat dorritos and drink coke, that is my decision and you can think it a "bad" food choice for you, but to label it "bad" for me is overstepping, imo.

I believe everything in moderation. If a person were eating doritos and drinking coke in place of meals on a regular basis then I'm pretty sure that would be a bad food choice Liz. To maintain a healthy body we need to make healthy choices. A snack each day is in my opinion no big deal, which is why I do indulge in these things myself. I don't want to work so hard to improve my life that I can't enjoy it if that makes sense.

Supafly · Guru

Picture-Perfect wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

You know what is very stupid. We are all women and we cannot just be happy that people are opting to get healthy ?

I don't want to drag this out if it's dying down, but I just don't really think this is it Melissa. I like you a lot and totally respect your opinions but I don't buy this. For me it's just a vibe I get from those threads and like you said people can choose not to read or to read but honestly when just about every thread goes from something general to an overwhelming presence of how bad pretty much everything is it gets hard. I'm trying to formulate the words for this. In one of the threads it was mentioned that a toothpaste to stay away from is baby orajel. I use that for Bryson and i'm sorry I don't think he's going to die from using it(and I know you didn't say that it's not about who said it) and it's not personal but if so many threads go to that type of thing it's hard for me to not read it. I think it's wonderful that you and others are getting healthy, i'm making small baby steps too, nothing like some of the things that others are opting for but it's like a CONSTANT barrage of this is bad, this is bad, this is bad and honestly it makes me feel bad. Stupid? Ok, but while we are all respecting each other maybe we could go a little easier. Now people's feelings are hurt and I stand by what I said even if no one else wants to speak up that's totally great but the vibe and tone of some of the threads is not purely informational and I doubt i'm the only one feeling that way. I'm sorry if i'm sensitive and i'm sure i'll get analyzed as this is guilt because my toothpaste has whatever bad things toothpaste has in it or my babies lotion has parabens and that's ok too :)

I supposed it is a difference of perspective, but I don't see how things that Melissa has been saying are overly harsh or meant to hurt others. I truly believe that she, and Kelly and anyone else who posts about these things are trying to just get information out there-and have a place to discuss this stuff. I hope what I am saying does not come across wrong, as I know this medium makes it difficult. I will preface by saying that I am typing this without meaning to inflict emotion or judgment.

I can see how these threads can make other people feel badly. When we are faced with knowledge that the choices we are making, or things we love, are not healthy or what is best for us, or when we see others taking such an active role in making changes in these areas, it can be tough to not be self-critical. Using the coupon craze (which had a barrage of threads as well for a while-to the point that I started spending less time on the board as a result-not because I hate couponers, lol, but because there was not much aside from that to read, and I was struggling to come up with other discussions-so until things died down a bit, I spent most of my time on FB-things wax and wane on the boards in terms of topics, and I think that is perfectly natural) as an example-if one were reading those threads and spending full price on the same items others are getting for near free, it could make them feel badly because they have neither the time nor the devotion (or whatever the case may be) to devote to couponing, but by not doing so when they have seen information about how it *can* be done, feel as though they are throwing money away. Even though no one in any of the coupon threads was saying everyone should do it, or those who don't are foolish and wasting money, or anything else of that nature, just the passing on of this information on MS might be enough for someone who *wants* to be able to save that kind of money but doesn't internally feel bad/guilty/whatever. Does that make sense?

I truly do not feel that ANYONE in any of these health threads is trying to make others feel badly, or elevate themselves to some position of superiority or anything of the like. I think those who are making changes basically want to share information with people they care about, and are excited by the changes they have been able to make, and want to talk about that. If that makes someone else feel badly, then I believe that is based on something internal. And I feel that asking anyone to take it easy on posting about something about which they are passionate so that other people don't feel bad or guilty is not appropriate. This is just my opinion, mind you, but there it is.

I am trying to make changes. But it is slow going (case in point-Bill called me when I was on my way home from the GI yesterday and asked me to pick up some lunch from McDs. I didn't even think twice, I just asked him what he wanted! Oh well...). But Rome wasn't built in a day-so I don't expect to change everything in a day either. Nor do I think that if I don't make changes TODAY, my kids will suffer-I think it takes years of exposure in most cases. I am just happy with the things I have managed to change so far.

And if other people here DON'T want to make changes, that is fine!!! There is nothing AT ALL wrong with that. I am happy for the couponers that they are able to save so much money, but I do not feel an ounce of guilt that that is not a focus in my life. We are all wading through this life and making the best choices for us and our family that we know how to make.

My basic point is (and wow-I could have just written this, I guess-sorry) is that if you feel badly because you want to be able to make some of the changes that specifically Melissa and Kelly have been talking about but are unable to do so, I am terribly sorry. I know that that is a very bad feeling to have. However, I don't think it is their intention to make you feel that way, and I would hope that no one would be limited in what topics they can or can not post.

Just my opinion-and I hope it didn't come out wrong.

mctex · Guru

Lizzy wrote:

mctex wrote:

Lizzy wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

Kelly. Do not be silly. Do not stop being who you are or doing what you feel passionate about. I have made just as many posts. People who do not want to or who do not like it can opt to not join in. I find it refreshing to actually have some meaningful and helpfully info that will make me a better person.

As you see from posts that many people like them and you are helping people.

I will step in here to say that statements like "make me a better person' is where i see a problem. see, i don't think it makes you a "better person" b/c you eat organic food or even "healthy" food. I just think it makes you a person who makes different choices than other people. there is no moral attachment to it, idt. i don't feel like anyone should be made to feel bad b/c they make different food choices. ( I still remember a few years ago when Hiker Jen made a post equating the eating of an occasional bologna & mayo sandwich to child abuse --and that has stood out for me siince then)

(not trying to attack anyone, just pointing out that statements like that are ones that might make people feel bad and they shouldn't, imo.)
eta that i just realized that the reference to better may be in reference to yourself, ie comparing your own actions and not a reflection on anyone else

-- Edited by Lizzy on Wednesday 10th of February 2010 11:07:08 AM

Let's take this on a different HT tangent... LOL

I completely agree with the blue. People are far more than the choices they make, food included. And everyone deserves be accepted and respected.

Regarding the red, though, I'm not sure what you meant here, but if you're implying that there are not "good" and "bad" food choices, merely "different ones" -- that I'm going to disagree with. (I'm guessing that's probably not what you meant, but your use of the word "different" instead of "bad" was confusing to me.) A person who makes bad choices is not somehow lesser of a person, because none of us are perfect. But their choices are BAD, not different.

And regarding the whole sentiment -- my opinion about all of this changes wildly if we go to a single payer healthcare system, which is my biggest problem with the concept. If our society is so clearly and directly impacted through the choices that an individual is making, I think it's totally unreasonable to expect that same society would sit idle and accepting of those bad choices.

Said more succinctly -- if I'm paying for someone else's healthcare, it is my business what they do, because it does impact me directly.

Just food (healthy or junk, I'm not sure) for thought.

i typed out a long reply...but really don't want to take this topic any further. although i do agree with your opinon about universal healthcare. it will be interesting to see how that takes shape in america.

-- Edited by Lizzy on Wednesday 10th of February 2010 01:52:31 PM

You're too late.

To say that there is no concrete evidence that coke and doritos are bad for anyone Liz is straight up delusion. That's not judgment. That's straight up fact.

And since we're all speaking our minds here, as a fat person who can't seem to lose weight, people instantly want to judge me as someone that doesn't know that coke and doritos are bad.

Which I think makes them ignorant and totally insensitive.

Until you actually have the audacity to make that argument. Because then I have to concede that there are people who still actually think that way. And shit, why shouldn't they confuse me with one of them.

Lizzy · Guru

mctex wrote:

Lizzy wrote:

mctex wrote:

Lizzy wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

Kelly. Do not be silly. Do not stop being who you are or doing what you feel passionate about. I have made just as many posts. People who do not want to or who do not like it can opt to not join in. I find it refreshing to actually have some meaningful and helpfully info that will make me a better person.

As you see from posts that many people like them and you are helping people.

I will step in here to say that statements like "make me a better person' is where i see a problem. see, i don't think it makes you a "better person" b/c you eat organic food or even "healthy" food. I just think it makes you a person who makes different choices than other people. there is no moral attachment to it, idt. i don't feel like anyone should be made to feel bad b/c they make different food choices. ( I still remember a few years ago when Hiker Jen made a post equating the eating of an occasional bologna & mayo sandwich to child abuse --and that has stood out for me siince then)

(not trying to attack anyone, just pointing out that statements like that are ones that might make people feel bad and they shouldn't, imo.)
eta that i just realized that the reference to better may be in reference to yourself, ie comparing your own actions and not a reflection on anyone else

-- Edited by Lizzy on Wednesday 10th of February 2010 11:07:08 AM

Let's take this on a different HT tangent... LOL

I completely agree with the blue. People are far more than the choices they make, food included. And everyone deserves be accepted and respected.

Regarding the red, though, I'm not sure what you meant here, but if you're implying that there are not "good" and "bad" food choices, merely "different ones" -- that I'm going to disagree with. (I'm guessing that's probably not what you meant, but your use of the word "different" instead of "bad" was confusing to me.) A person who makes bad choices is not somehow lesser of a person, because none of us are perfect. But their choices are BAD, not different.

And regarding the whole sentiment -- my opinion about all of this changes wildly if we go to a single payer healthcare system, which is my biggest problem with the concept. If our society is so clearly and directly impacted through the choices that an individual is making, I think it's totally unreasonable to expect that same society would sit idle and accepting of those bad choices.

Said more succinctly -- if I'm paying for someone else's healthcare, it is my business what they do, because it does impact me directly.

Just food (healthy or junk, I'm not sure) for thought.

i typed out a long reply...but really don't want to take this topic any further. although i do agree with your opinon about universal healthcare. it will be interesting to see how that takes shape in america.

-- Edited by Lizzy on Wednesday 10th of February 2010 01:52:31 PM

You're too late.

To say that there is no concrete evidence that coke and doritos are bad for anyone Liz is straight up delusion. That's not judgment. That's straight up fact.

And since we're all speaking our minds here, as a fat person who can't seem to lose weight, people instantly want to judge me as someone that doesn't know that coke and doritos are bad.

Which I think makes them ignorant and totally insensitive.

Until you actually have the audacity to make that argument. Because then I have to concede that there are people who still actually think that way. And shit, why shouldn't they confuse me with one of them.

darn ;)

I typed this out b/c i guess one of the biggest things for me is personal freedom, esp. of choices. I see a trend in America where we are moralizing behaviours that used to just be a matter of preference. for example, "i don't like dorritos. oh, you do? okay." nowdays, "I don't like dorrtos. they are very unhealthy and bad for you. oh, you eat them, don't you know they are so bad for you?" (the implication now is that the person eating dorritos is stupid) kwim?

Picture-Perfect · Guru

Supafly wrote:

Picture-Perfect wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

You know what is very stupid. We are all women and we cannot just be happy that people are opting to get healthy ?

I don't want to drag this out if it's dying down, but I just don't really think this is it Melissa. I like you a lot and totally respect your opinions but I don't buy this. For me it's just a vibe I get from those threads and like you said people can choose not to read or to read but honestly when just about every thread goes from something general to an overwhelming presence of how bad pretty much everything is it gets hard. I'm trying to formulate the words for this. In one of the threads it was mentioned that a toothpaste to stay away from is baby orajel. I use that for Bryson and i'm sorry I don't think he's going to die from using it(and I know you didn't say that it's not about who said it) and it's not personal but if so many threads go to that type of thing it's hard for me to not read it. I think it's wonderful that you and others are getting healthy, i'm making small baby steps too, nothing like some of the things that others are opting for but it's like a CONSTANT barrage of this is bad, this is bad, this is bad and honestly it makes me feel bad. Stupid? Ok, but while we are all respecting each other maybe we could go a little easier. Now people's feelings are hurt and I stand by what I said even if no one else wants to speak up that's totally great but the vibe and tone of some of the threads is not purely informational and I doubt i'm the only one feeling that way. I'm sorry if i'm sensitive and i'm sure i'll get analyzed as this is guilt because my toothpaste has whatever bad things toothpaste has in it or my babies lotion has parabens and that's ok too :)

I supposed it is a difference of perspective, but I don't see how things that Melissa has been saying are overly harsh or meant to hurt others. I truly believe that she, and Kelly and anyone else who posts about these things are trying to just get information out there-and have a place to discuss this stuff. I hope what I am saying does not come across wrong, as I know this medium makes it difficult. I will preface by saying that I am typing this without meaning to inflict emotion or judgment.

I can see how these threads can make other people feel badly. When we are faced with knowledge that the choices we are making, or things we love, are not healthy or what is best for us, or when we see others taking such an active role in making changes in these areas, it can be tough to not be self-critical. Using the coupon craze (which had a barrage of threads as well for a while-to the point that I started spending less time on the board as a result-not because I hate couponers, lol, but because there was not much aside from that to read, and I was struggling to come up with other discussions-so until things died down a bit, I spent most of my time on FB-things wax and wane on the boards in terms of topics, and I think that is perfectly natural) as an example-if one were reading those threads and spending full price on the same items others are getting for near free, it could make them feel badly because they have neither the time nor the devotion (or whatever the case may be) to devote to couponing, but by not doing so when they have seen information about how it *can* be done, feel as though they are throwing money away. Even though no one in any of the coupon threads was saying everyone should do it, or those who don't are foolish and wasting money, or anything else of that nature, just the passing on of this information on MS might be enough for someone who *wants* to be able to save that kind of money but doesn't internally feel bad/guilty/whatever. Does that make sense?

I truly do not feel that ANYONE in any of these health threads is trying to make others feel badly, or elevate themselves to some position of superiority or anything of the like. I think those who are making changes basically want to share information with people they care about, and are excited by the changes they have been able to make, and want to talk about that. If that makes someone else feel badly, then I believe that is based on something internal. And I feel that asking anyone to take it easy on posting about something about which they are passionate so that other people don't feel bad or guilty is not appropriate. This is just my opinion, mind you, but there it is.

I am trying to make changes. But it is slow going (case in point-Bill called me when I was on my way home from the GI yesterday and asked me to pick up some lunch from McDs. I didn't even think twice, I just asked him what he wanted! Oh well...). But Rome wasn't built in a day-so I don't expect to change everything in a day either. Nor do I think that if I don't make changes TODAY, my kids will suffer-I think it takes years of exposure in most cases. I am just happy with the things I have managed to change so far.

And if other people here DON'T want to make changes, that is fine!!! There is nothing AT ALL wrong with that. I am happy for the couponers that they are able to save so much money, but I do not feel an ounce of guilt that that is not a focus in my life. We are all wading through this life and making the best choices for us and our family that we know how to make.

My basic point is (and wow-I could have just written this, I guess-sorry) is that if you feel badly because you want to be able to make some of the changes that specifically Melissa and Kelly have been talking about but are unable to do so, I am terribly sorry. I know that that is a very bad feeling to have. However, I don't think it is their intention to make you feel that way, and I would hope that no one would be limited in what topics they can or can not post.

Just my opinion-and I hope it didn't come out wrong.

I definitely agree with some of what you've said Supa :) You have valid points for sure. I just probably need to clarify, when I say go easy I don't mean stop posting but maybe saying the same thing over and over and over isn't necessary. And while we might not have the same view of this, I personally would not keep doing something if I knew I was hurting or making other people feel bad but that's just my personality. I'm generally a people pleaser which is why I feel bad that Melissa posted what she did and that anyone's feelings are hurt. I'm not very good at putting thoughts to computer keyboard which is why I usually don't participate, good cop out excuse sure but it is really true.

I definitely see the similarities in this and the couponing threads, I didn't until you pointed that out. I guess ultimately we are all different and we should just do what we do for the reasons that we have and feel with our hearts.

daisy · Guru

Picture-Perfect wrote:

Supafly wrote:

Picture-Perfect wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

You know what is very stupid. We are all women and we cannot just be happy that people are opting to get healthy ?

I don't want to drag this out if it's dying down, but I just don't really think this is it Melissa. I like you a lot and totally respect your opinions but I don't buy this. For me it's just a vibe I get from those threads and like you said people can choose not to read or to read but honestly when just about every thread goes from something general to an overwhelming presence of how bad pretty much everything is it gets hard. I'm trying to formulate the words for this. In one of the threads it was mentioned that a toothpaste to stay away from is baby orajel. I use that for Bryson and i'm sorry I don't think he's going to die from using it(and I know you didn't say that it's not about who said it) and it's not personal but if so many threads go to that type of thing it's hard for me to not read it. I think it's wonderful that you and others are getting healthy, i'm making small baby steps too, nothing like some of the things that others are opting for but it's like a CONSTANT barrage of this is bad, this is bad, this is bad and honestly it makes me feel bad. Stupid? Ok, but while we are all respecting each other maybe we could go a little easier. Now people's feelings are hurt and I stand by what I said even if no one else wants to speak up that's totally great but the vibe and tone of some of the threads is not purely informational and I doubt i'm the only one feeling that way. I'm sorry if i'm sensitive and i'm sure i'll get analyzed as this is guilt because my toothpaste has whatever bad things toothpaste has in it or my babies lotion has parabens and that's ok too :)

I supposed it is a difference of perspective, but I don't see how things that Melissa has been saying are overly harsh or meant to hurt others. I truly believe that she, and Kelly and anyone else who posts about these things are trying to just get information out there-and have a place to discuss this stuff. I hope what I am saying does not come across wrong, as I know this medium makes it difficult. I will preface by saying that I am typing this without meaning to inflict emotion or judgment.

I can see how these threads can make other people feel badly. When we are faced with knowledge that the choices we are making, or things we love, are not healthy or what is best for us, or when we see others taking such an active role in making changes in these areas, it can be tough to not be self-critical. Using the coupon craze (which had a barrage of threads as well for a while-to the point that I started spending less time on the board as a result-not because I hate couponers, lol, but because there was not much aside from that to read, and I was struggling to come up with other discussions-so until things died down a bit, I spent most of my time on FB-things wax and wane on the boards in terms of topics, and I think that is perfectly natural) as an example-if one were reading those threads and spending full price on the same items others are getting for near free, it could make them feel badly because they have neither the time nor the devotion (or whatever the case may be) to devote to couponing, but by not doing so when they have seen information about how it *can* be done, feel as though they are throwing money away. Even though no one in any of the coupon threads was saying everyone should do it, or those who don't are foolish and wasting money, or anything else of that nature, just the passing on of this information on MS might be enough for someone who *wants* to be able to save that kind of money but doesn't internally feel bad/guilty/whatever. Does that make sense?

I truly do not feel that ANYONE in any of these health threads is trying to make others feel badly, or elevate themselves to some position of superiority or anything of the like. I think those who are making changes basically want to share information with people they care about, and are excited by the changes they have been able to make, and want to talk about that. If that makes someone else feel badly, then I believe that is based on something internal. And I feel that asking anyone to take it easy on posting about something about which they are passionate so that other people don't feel bad or guilty is not appropriate. This is just my opinion, mind you, but there it is.

I am trying to make changes. But it is slow going (case in point-Bill called me when I was on my way home from the GI yesterday and asked me to pick up some lunch from McDs. I didn't even think twice, I just asked him what he wanted! Oh well...). But Rome wasn't built in a day-so I don't expect to change everything in a day either. Nor do I think that if I don't make changes TODAY, my kids will suffer-I think it takes years of exposure in most cases. I am just happy with the things I have managed to change so far.

And if other people here DON'T want to make changes, that is fine!!! There is nothing AT ALL wrong with that. I am happy for the couponers that they are able to save so much money, but I do not feel an ounce of guilt that that is not a focus in my life. We are all wading through this life and making the best choices for us and our family that we know how to make.

My basic point is (and wow-I could have just written this, I guess-sorry) is that if you feel badly because you want to be able to make some of the changes that specifically Melissa and Kelly have been talking about but are unable to do so, I am terribly sorry. I know that that is a very bad feeling to have. However, I don't think it is their intention to make you feel that way, and I would hope that no one would be limited in what topics they can or can not post.

Just my opinion-and I hope it didn't come out wrong.
I definitely agree with some of what you've said Supa :) You have valid points for sure. I just probably need to clarify, when I say go easy I don't mean stop posting but maybe saying the same thing over and over and over isn't necessary. And while we might not have the same view of this, I personally would not keep doing something if I knew I was hurting or making other people feel bad but that's just my personality. I'm generally a people pleaser which is why I feel bad that Melissa posted what she did and that anyone's feelings are hurt. I'm not very good at putting thoughts to computer keyboard which is why I usually don't participate, good cop out excuse sure but it is really true.

I definitely see the similarities in this and the couponing threads, I didn't until you pointed that out. I guess ultimately we are all different and we should just do what we do for the reasons that we have and feel with our hearts.

bold - this is how i feel too, and why i do not want to post about health anymore. i dont want you guys to feel badly (and i also dont want to be the annoying one on the board - lol).

mctex · Guru

Lizzy wrote:

mctex wrote:

Lizzy wrote:

mctex wrote:

Lizzy wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

Kelly. Do not be silly. Do not stop being who you are or doing what you feel passionate about. I have made just as many posts. People who do not want to or who do not like it can opt to not join in. I find it refreshing to actually have some meaningful and helpfully info that will make me a better person.

As you see from posts that many people like them and you are helping people.

I will step in here to say that statements like "make me a better person' is where i see a problem. see, i don't think it makes you a "better person" b/c you eat organic food or even "healthy" food. I just think it makes you a person who makes different choices than other people. there is no moral attachment to it, idt. i don't feel like anyone should be made to feel bad b/c they make different food choices. ( I still remember a few years ago when Hiker Jen made a post equating the eating of an occasional bologna & mayo sandwich to child abuse --and that has stood out for me siince then)

(not trying to attack anyone, just pointing out that statements like that are ones that might make people feel bad and they shouldn't, imo.)
eta that i just realized that the reference to better may be in reference to yourself, ie comparing your own actions and not a reflection on anyone else

-- Edited by Lizzy on Wednesday 10th of February 2010 11:07:08 AM

Let's take this on a different HT tangent... LOL

I completely agree with the blue. People are far more than the choices they make, food included. And everyone deserves be accepted and respected.

Regarding the red, though, I'm not sure what you meant here, but if you're implying that there are not "good" and "bad" food choices, merely "different ones" -- that I'm going to disagree with. (I'm guessing that's probably not what you meant, but your use of the word "different" instead of "bad" was confusing to me.) A person who makes bad choices is not somehow lesser of a person, because none of us are perfect. But their choices are BAD, not different.

And regarding the whole sentiment -- my opinion about all of this changes wildly if we go to a single payer healthcare system, which is my biggest problem with the concept. If our society is so clearly and directly impacted through the choices that an individual is making, I think it's totally unreasonable to expect that same society would sit idle and accepting of those bad choices.

Said more succinctly -- if I'm paying for someone else's healthcare, it is my business what they do, because it does impact me directly.

Just food (healthy or junk, I'm not sure) for thought.

i typed out a long reply...but really don't want to take this topic any further. although i do agree with your opinon about universal healthcare. it will be interesting to see how that takes shape in america.

-- Edited by Lizzy on Wednesday 10th of February 2010 01:52:31 PM

You're too late.

To say that there is no concrete evidence that coke and doritos are bad for anyone Liz is straight up delusion. That's not judgment. That's straight up fact.

And since we're all speaking our minds here, as a fat person who can't seem to lose weight, people instantly want to judge me as someone that doesn't know that coke and doritos are bad.

Which I think makes them ignorant and totally insensitive.

Until you actually have the audacity to make that argument. Because then I have to concede that there are people who still actually think that way. And shit, why shouldn't they confuse me with one of them.

darn ;)

I typed this out b/c i guess one of the biggest things for me is personal freedom, esp. of choices. I see a trend in America where we are moralizing behaviours that used to just be a matter of preference. for example, "i don't like dorritos. oh, you do? okay." nowdays, "I don't like dorrtos. they are very unhealthy and bad for you. oh, you eat them, don't you know they are so bad for you?" (the implication now is that the person eating dorritos is stupid) kwim?

I do know exactly what you mean.

Which is precisely why I cringed so much when I saw what you'd written. It doesn't help that stupid perception, KWIM?

Like I feel Michele did a really good job of taking ownership of the knowledge that her occasional indulgence might not be the healthiest, but that she had it under control. I feel like that's totally different than if she would've tried to say they weren't bad at all.

Supafly · Guru

Picture-Perfect wrote:

I definitely agree with some of what you've said Supa :) You have valid points for sure. I just probably need to clarify, when I say go easy I don't mean stop posting but maybe saying the same thing over and over and over isn't necessary. And while we might not have the same view of this, I personally would not keep doing something if I knew I was hurting or making other people feel bad but that's just my personality. I'm generally a people pleaser which is why I feel bad that Melissa posted what she did and that anyone's feelings are hurt. I'm not very good at putting thoughts to computer keyboard which is why I usually don't participate, good cop out excuse sure but it is really true.

I definitely see the similarities in this and the couponing threads, I didn't until you pointed that out. I guess ultimately we are all different and we should just do what we do for the reasons that we have and feel with our hearts.

I guess I don't understand what has been said that hurt your feelings. Maybe I missed something or took something differently, I am not sure. From my perspective, it feels different, not knowing the specifics of what hurt you. It feels like you and a couple others want the health discussions limited or gone, which I feel does a disservice to those of us (like myself) who don't want to see that happen.

I'm sorry you have felt hurt-that is not a good way to feel. Just as I am sorry that Melissa and Kelly are now both vowing to not post about anything health related anymore. Both things are a true shame.

Picture-Perfect · Guru

daisy wrote:

Picture-Perfect wrote:

Supafly wrote:

Picture-Perfect wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

You know what is very stupid. We are all women and we cannot just be happy that people are opting to get healthy ?

I don't want to drag this out if it's dying down, but I just don't really think this is it Melissa. I like you a lot and totally respect your opinions but I don't buy this. For me it's just a vibe I get from those threads and like you said people can choose not to read or to read but honestly when just about every thread goes from something general to an overwhelming presence of how bad pretty much everything is it gets hard. I'm trying to formulate the words for this. In one of the threads it was mentioned that a toothpaste to stay away from is baby orajel. I use that for Bryson and i'm sorry I don't think he's going to die from using it(and I know you didn't say that it's not about who said it) and it's not personal but if so many threads go to that type of thing it's hard for me to not read it. I think it's wonderful that you and others are getting healthy, i'm making small baby steps too, nothing like some of the things that others are opting for but it's like a CONSTANT barrage of this is bad, this is bad, this is bad and honestly it makes me feel bad. Stupid? Ok, but while we are all respecting each other maybe we could go a little easier. Now people's feelings are hurt and I stand by what I said even if no one else wants to speak up that's totally great but the vibe and tone of some of the threads is not purely informational and I doubt i'm the only one feeling that way. I'm sorry if i'm sensitive and i'm sure i'll get analyzed as this is guilt because my toothpaste has whatever bad things toothpaste has in it or my babies lotion has parabens and that's ok too :)

I supposed it is a difference of perspective, but I don't see how things that Melissa has been saying are overly harsh or meant to hurt others. I truly believe that she, and Kelly and anyone else who posts about these things are trying to just get information out there-and have a place to discuss this stuff. I hope what I am saying does not come across wrong, as I know this medium makes it difficult. I will preface by saying that I am typing this without meaning to inflict emotion or judgment.

I can see how these threads can make other people feel badly. When we are faced with knowledge that the choices we are making, or things we love, are not healthy or what is best for us, or when we see others taking such an active role in making changes in these areas, it can be tough to not be self-critical. Using the coupon craze (which had a barrage of threads as well for a while-to the point that I started spending less time on the board as a result-not because I hate couponers, lol, but because there was not much aside from that to read, and I was struggling to come up with other discussions-so until things died down a bit, I spent most of my time on FB-things wax and wane on the boards in terms of topics, and I think that is perfectly natural) as an example-if one were reading those threads and spending full price on the same items others are getting for near free, it could make them feel badly because they have neither the time nor the devotion (or whatever the case may be) to devote to couponing, but by not doing so when they have seen information about how it *can* be done, feel as though they are throwing money away. Even though no one in any of the coupon threads was saying everyone should do it, or those who don't are foolish and wasting money, or anything else of that nature, just the passing on of this information on MS might be enough for someone who *wants* to be able to save that kind of money but doesn't internally feel bad/guilty/whatever. Does that make sense?

I truly do not feel that ANYONE in any of these health threads is trying to make others feel badly, or elevate themselves to some position of superiority or anything of the like. I think those who are making changes basically want to share information with people they care about, and are excited by the changes they have been able to make, and want to talk about that. If that makes someone else feel badly, then I believe that is based on something internal. And I feel that asking anyone to take it easy on posting about something about which they are passionate so that other people don't feel bad or guilty is not appropriate. This is just my opinion, mind you, but there it is.

I am trying to make changes. But it is slow going (case in point-Bill called me when I was on my way home from the GI yesterday and asked me to pick up some lunch from McDs. I didn't even think twice, I just asked him what he wanted! Oh well...). But Rome wasn't built in a day-so I don't expect to change everything in a day either. Nor do I think that if I don't make changes TODAY, my kids will suffer-I think it takes years of exposure in most cases. I am just happy with the things I have managed to change so far.

And if other people here DON'T want to make changes, that is fine!!! There is nothing AT ALL wrong with that. I am happy for the couponers that they are able to save so much money, but I do not feel an ounce of guilt that that is not a focus in my life. We are all wading through this life and making the best choices for us and our family that we know how to make.

My basic point is (and wow-I could have just written this, I guess-sorry) is that if you feel badly because you want to be able to make some of the changes that specifically Melissa and Kelly have been talking about but are unable to do so, I am terribly sorry. I know that that is a very bad feeling to have. However, I don't think it is their intention to make you feel that way, and I would hope that no one would be limited in what topics they can or can not post.

Just my opinion-and I hope it didn't come out wrong.
I definitely agree with some of what you've said Supa :) You have valid points for sure. I just probably need to clarify, when I say go easy I don't mean stop posting but maybe saying the same thing over and over and over isn't necessary. And while we might not have the same view of this, I personally would not keep doing something if I knew I was hurting or making other people feel bad but that's just my personality. I'm generally a people pleaser which is why I feel bad that Melissa posted what she did and that anyone's feelings are hurt. I'm not very good at putting thoughts to computer keyboard which is why I usually don't participate, good cop out excuse sure but it is really true.

I definitely see the similarities in this and the couponing threads, I didn't until you pointed that out. I guess ultimately we are all different and we should just do what we do for the reasons that we have and feel with our hearts.

bold - this is how i feel too, and why i do not want to post about health anymore. i dont want you guys to feel badly (and i also dont want to be the annoying one on the board - lol).

Kelly, I haven't responded to you directly and i'm sorry for that. I am very proud of you and impressed by the changes you've made. While they are not in the cards for me right now and may never be I never wanted to minimize what you have done or others have done. I think Tex hit on it, for me anyhow in her Lucy Van Pelt post, I will pay her more then 5 cents because she really said a lot of what was in my heart. I think i'm a little too sensitive and i'm not sure why. I do think you should still post, as Melissa said we can all choose to read what like, I hate to mention her since she's finished here but she was right.

Juni · Guru

mctex wrote:

Juni wrote:

Kelly - I'm sorry you're feeling bad and feel like you can't post anymore threads about health but I'm honestly not sure why you feel that way. In no way were the comments that were referenced even specifically about you. We are doing Biggest Loser too and there have been several posts about soda, health, fast food, etc. and I really think it was a comment about all of that in general. So, even if she had messaged her about it I don't see the problem and fully assumed it would have been something like - man I'm glad I'm not the only one, that makes me feel better.

I'm sorry any of this would make you feel bad in the slightest but I'm also totally confused why you would assume it was about *you* and also why it would make you stop posting and sharing information. Many people have expressed a similar desire and have shared information as well. Nobody even pointed out it was your specific thread (and I don't believe it was - I believe it was a combination of many threads) - and even then I think it's all in good fun.

(And I don't know how the tone of this will come across but I don't mean it in a rude or angry way.)

Honestly?
Not to single you out (and I sincerely mean that; I'm replying to you because you've provided a nice segue into my soapbox :)), but after six years of this, you didn't see this coming from a mile away?
Because I did -- a few pages ago.
Whenever people are addressed/described in vague terms (e.g., "MomSquawk", "people who eat unhealthy", etc.), to the extent that someone 1) feels she might somehow be a part of the group that's being described and 2) she GAF about what the person speaking says about them, she's going to get a little paranoid.
It's basic human nature, exacerbated by the medium. In addition to the basic medium challenges (i.e. missing out on tone and expression and the other things that allow us to build trust), it's harder to feel secure in internet friendships, because we don't live close by one another and thus do the friendship-affirming things we do IRL (like invite peeps to our house, etc.).
Like when I read the beginning of the thread, while Corey might have been joking or saying things in a jovial way, I'm not sure everyone else who responded necessarily was, which then makes the overall tone of the thread less jovial than what Corey might have intended. (FTR, I read Leah's post as more lighthearted than Corey's, so I hate that Leah is taking the heat on this. Not than anyone deserves heat at all.)
TBH, I wasn't sure Corey was joking or not (sorry to be talking about you like you're not here, Corey, but it's inevitable in the aftermath of these kinds of threads) -- like I said, humor and passive aggression look a lot alike. If you read the other responses, it's pretty clear that I wasn't the only one that wasn't certain it was a joke.
(I was even less certain she was joking with her "BTW, I know croke is spelled wrong" post. That felt more defensive than jovial.)
Corey indicates she feels close to Kelly. Revisiting points one and two, then -- 1) yes, Kelly does share quite a bit about a green lifestyle (and thus identified with whatever part of "MomSquawk" Corey was describing), and 2) Kelly probably cares a great deal what Corey would think. Voila, instant hurt feelings.
I'm a regular Lucy Van Pelt. That will be 5 cents.

Well, as someone who did see the pic/comment on FB it didn't even make me think of Kelly and as I read back through this thread it was Kelly herself who stepped up to apologize if she made people feel bad even though nowhere was she pointed out specifically. So, that is mostly where I am coming from in terms of this post. It was very lighthearted (IMO) and did not point out any one person but then Kelly seemed to get all defensive.

So, yeah I can see as it's progressed but it seemed to me that she was the one that kind of got the ball rolling, kwim? I thought this post was (initially) very light hearted and joking and I didn't see anything wrong with it.

daisy · Guru

Supafly wrote:

Picture-Perfect wrote:

I definitely agree with some of what you've said Supa :) You have valid points for sure. I just probably need to clarify, when I say go easy I don't mean stop posting but maybe saying the same thing over and over and over isn't necessary. And while we might not have the same view of this, I personally would not keep doing something if I knew I was hurting or making other people feel bad but that's just my personality. I'm generally a people pleaser which is why I feel bad that Melissa posted what she did and that anyone's feelings are hurt. I'm not very good at putting thoughts to computer keyboard which is why I usually don't participate, good cop out excuse sure but it is really true.

I definitely see the similarities in this and the couponing threads, I didn't until you pointed that out. I guess ultimately we are all different and we should just do what we do for the reasons that we have and feel with our hearts.

I guess I don't understand what has been said that hurt your feelings. Maybe I missed something or took something differently, I am not sure. From my perspective, it feels different, not knowing the specifics of what hurt you. It feels like you and a couple others want the health discussions limited or gone, which I feel does a disservice to those of us (like myself) who don't want to see that happen.

I'm sorry you have felt hurt-that is not a good way to feel. Just as I am sorry that Melissa and Kelly are now both vowing to not post about anything health related anymore. Both things are a true shame.

what i think stinks about it is that the health food stuff has gotten all mixed in with the other stuff i've been researching.
we all know that there are healhtier choices than mcdonalds.
but maybe we didnt all know about parabens in kids' products.
i feel liek that is COMPLETELY appropriate information to post about on a PARENTING BOARD.

i mean listen you guys, i didnt make this research up. i was told it also. i heard it on tv. it raised a flag. then another friend told me more about what she read. i said "hmm."
then ther's a decision. either you decide to research it a bit and switch the product (which is NO BIG DEAL -it's a matter of moving down a shelf and getting something different for the same price) - OR, you say "ya know what, this research is really not convincing, and this isnt something i'm going to waste my time on."

i totally dont get what the big deal is.
no one is judging about what lotion they use on their kids. hell, eucerin has been recommended to me over and over by my pediatrician, and it's loaded with petro-chemicals. SERIOUSLY this stuff will not kill us.
but sharing this sort of info with other moms seems perfectly normal to me.

i do try hard not to come across as judgmental about food choices. i know many of you work hard daily to lose weight and i admire you all for that.
i have been saying over and over in the past few days that the biggies for me (FOR ME FOR ME FOR ME) are hormones in milk and chicken. i also have made comments that our unhealthy food choices may contribute to demand in these foods - that's not so muhc my judgment as a take-home message from food inc.
anyone who watches it will come home wiht the same message.

mctex · Guru

Picture-Perfect wrote:

Supafly wrote:

Picture-Perfect wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

You know what is very stupid. We are all women and we cannot just be happy that people are opting to get healthy ?

I don't want to drag this out if it's dying down, but I just don't really think this is it Melissa. I like you a lot and totally respect your opinions but I don't buy this. For me it's just a vibe I get from those threads and like you said people can choose not to read or to read but honestly when just about every thread goes from something general to an overwhelming presence of how bad pretty much everything is it gets hard. I'm trying to formulate the words for this. In one of the threads it was mentioned that a toothpaste to stay away from is baby orajel. I use that for Bryson and i'm sorry I don't think he's going to die from using it(and I know you didn't say that it's not about who said it) and it's not personal but if so many threads go to that type of thing it's hard for me to not read it. I think it's wonderful that you and others are getting healthy, i'm making small baby steps too, nothing like some of the things that others are opting for but it's like a CONSTANT barrage of this is bad, this is bad, this is bad and honestly it makes me feel bad. Stupid? Ok, but while we are all respecting each other maybe we could go a little easier. Now people's feelings are hurt and I stand by what I said even if no one else wants to speak up that's totally great but the vibe and tone of some of the threads is not purely informational and I doubt i'm the only one feeling that way. I'm sorry if i'm sensitive and i'm sure i'll get analyzed as this is guilt because my toothpaste has whatever bad things toothpaste has in it or my babies lotion has parabens and that's ok too :)

I supposed it is a difference of perspective, but I don't see how things that Melissa has been saying are overly harsh or meant to hurt others. I truly believe that she, and Kelly and anyone else who posts about these things are trying to just get information out there-and have a place to discuss this stuff. I hope what I am saying does not come across wrong, as I know this medium makes it difficult. I will preface by saying that I am typing this without meaning to inflict emotion or judgment.

I can see how these threads can make other people feel badly. When we are faced with knowledge that the choices we are making, or things we love, are not healthy or what is best for us, or when we see others taking such an active role in making changes in these areas, it can be tough to not be self-critical. Using the coupon craze (which had a barrage of threads as well for a while-to the point that I started spending less time on the board as a result-not because I hate couponers, lol, but because there was not much aside from that to read, and I was struggling to come up with other discussions-so until things died down a bit, I spent most of my time on FB-things wax and wane on the boards in terms of topics, and I think that is perfectly natural) as an example-if one were reading those threads and spending full price on the same items others are getting for near free, it could make them feel badly because they have neither the time nor the devotion (or whatever the case may be) to devote to couponing, but by not doing so when they have seen information about how it *can* be done, feel as though they are throwing money away. Even though no one in any of the coupon threads was saying everyone should do it, or those who don't are foolish and wasting money, or anything else of that nature, just the passing on of this information on MS might be enough for someone who *wants* to be able to save that kind of money but doesn't internally feel bad/guilty/whatever. Does that make sense?

I truly do not feel that ANYONE in any of these health threads is trying to make others feel badly, or elevate themselves to some position of superiority or anything of the like. I think those who are making changes basically want to share information with people they care about, and are excited by the changes they have been able to make, and want to talk about that. If that makes someone else feel badly, then I believe that is based on something internal. And I feel that asking anyone to take it easy on posting about something about which they are passionate so that other people don't feel bad or guilty is not appropriate. This is just my opinion, mind you, but there it is.

I am trying to make changes. But it is slow going (case in point-Bill called me when I was on my way home from the GI yesterday and asked me to pick up some lunch from McDs. I didn't even think twice, I just asked him what he wanted! Oh well...). But Rome wasn't built in a day-so I don't expect to change everything in a day either. Nor do I think that if I don't make changes TODAY, my kids will suffer-I think it takes years of exposure in most cases. I am just happy with the things I have managed to change so far.

And if other people here DON'T want to make changes, that is fine!!! There is nothing AT ALL wrong with that. I am happy for the couponers that they are able to save so much money, but I do not feel an ounce of guilt that that is not a focus in my life. We are all wading through this life and making the best choices for us and our family that we know how to make.

My basic point is (and wow-I could have just written this, I guess-sorry) is that if you feel badly because you want to be able to make some of the changes that specifically Melissa and Kelly have been talking about but are unable to do so, I am terribly sorry. I know that that is a very bad feeling to have. However, I don't think it is their intention to make you feel that way, and I would hope that no one would be limited in what topics they can or can not post.

Just my opinion-and I hope it didn't come out wrong.
I definitely agree with some of what you've said Supa :) You have valid points for sure. I just probably need to clarify, when I say go easy I don't mean stop posting but maybe saying the same thing over and over and over isn't necessary. And while we might not have the same view of this, I personally would not keep doing something if I knew I was hurting or making other people feel bad but that's just my personality. I'm generally a people pleaser which is why I feel bad that Melissa posted what she did and that anyone's feelings are hurt. I'm not very good at putting thoughts to computer keyboard which is why I usually don't participate, good cop out excuse sure but it is really true.

I definitely see the similarities in this and the couponing threads, I didn't until you pointed that out. I guess ultimately we are all different and we should just do what we do for the reasons that we have and feel with our hearts.

I think you've made some really good points and I really appreciate your ability to calmly and clearly articulate your POV. I disagree that you're not good at putting thoughts to a keyboard.

Regarding the red... I do understand what you're saying here, and I actually think that's Melissa's point. From her POV, she was just really excited about the changes she was making. Was there a tone of righteousness? I won't say there never was, but has anyone else heard that adage about "there are none so righteous..." (surely you have ;) ). But the bottom line was that these posts were driven not by spite but by her enthusiasm -- enthusiasm that was causing other people to feel bad. So she's forced with a choice -- please others, or feel good herself.

It's not just here on this board that this happens -- this is the state of our world today, particularly for women. The message is "shine, but don't shine so much that you make others feel insecure."

And as a mother of two girls, I'm having a really hard time trying to figure out what the hell I'm going to teach them.

Corey · Guru

Okay, first thing- my original post was a joke, plain and simple. I was not being passive aggressive. If I really felt horrible about my habits b/c of Kelly's threads (and I am only naming her specifically b/c she was referenced in your post regarding my intentions, Michelle)-well, I have her I'm, email, and home address-if I was honestly upset I couldve sent her a letter).

The croke vs croak response was defensive. When I saw your post, Michelle, to April that said something like "really? You feel like you are going to "croke" followed by lllllooooll!, well, I took that as you laughing at my stupid mistake.

In retrospect I can see that you were probably lllloooll'ing at the irony that it was April of all people that responded she felt similarly. I apologize if I took what was probably teasing directed at her as slyly making fun of me.

daisy · Guru

Juni wrote:

Well, as someone who did see the pic/comment on FB it didn't even make me think of Kelly and as I read back through this thread it was Kelly herself who stepped up to apologize if she made people feel bad even though nowhere was she pointed out specifically. So, that is mostly where I am coming from in terms of this post. It was very lighthearted (IMO) and did not point out any one person but then Kelly seemed to get all defensive.

So, yeah I can see as it's progressed but it seemed to me that she was the one that kind of got the ball rolling, kwim? I thought this post was (initially) very light hearted and joking and I didn't see anything wrong with it.

well in all fairness, i like to think of my tone as more apologetic than defensive - lol.
i got a bit defensive when i felt i was beign talked about. other than that, i just wanted to let you guys know that i didnt mean to hurt feelings, and that i was ok with a jab here and there. not sure what the problem is with that, really. as SOON as the leah thing was cleared up, i said i fully believed her, and i do, and i trust corey, and i have no bad feelings about that.

and while i dont know what's going on in the MSBL threads, here on the BP, i have been the one who's the health nut lately, so i think it was a fair assumption.

Supafly · Guru

daisy wrote:

Supafly wrote:

Picture-Perfect wrote:

I definitely agree with some of what you've said Supa :) You have valid points for sure. I just probably need to clarify, when I say go easy I don't mean stop posting but maybe saying the same thing over and over and over isn't necessary. And while we might not have the same view of this, I personally would not keep doing something if I knew I was hurting or making other people feel bad but that's just my personality. I'm generally a people pleaser which is why I feel bad that Melissa posted what she did and that anyone's feelings are hurt. I'm not very good at putting thoughts to computer keyboard which is why I usually don't participate, good cop out excuse sure but it is really true.

I definitely see the similarities in this and the couponing threads, I didn't until you pointed that out. I guess ultimately we are all different and we should just do what we do for the reasons that we have and feel with our hearts.

I guess I don't understand what has been said that hurt your feelings. Maybe I missed something or took something differently, I am not sure. From my perspective, it feels different, not knowing the specifics of what hurt you. It feels like you and a couple others want the health discussions limited or gone, which I feel does a disservice to those of us (like myself) who don't want to see that happen.

I'm sorry you have felt hurt-that is not a good way to feel. Just as I am sorry that Melissa and Kelly are now both vowing to not post about anything health related anymore. Both things are a true shame.

what i think stinks about it is that the health food stuff has gotten all mixed in with the other stuff i've been researching.
we all know that there are healhtier choices than mcdonalds.
but maybe we didnt all know about parabens in kids' products.
i feel liek that is COMPLETELY appropriate information to post about on a PARENTING BOARD.

i mean listen you guys, i didnt make this research up. i was told it also. i heard it on tv. it raised a flag. then another friend told me more about what she read. i said "hmm."
then ther's a decision. either you decide to research it a bit and switch the product (which is NO BIG DEAL -it's a matter of moving down a shelf and getting something different for the same price) - OR, you say "ya know what, this research is really not convincing, and this isnt something i'm going to waste my time on."

i totally dont get what the big deal is.
no one is judging about what lotion they use on their kids. hell, eucerin has been recommended to me over and over by my pediatrician, and it's loaded with petro-chemicals. SERIOUSLY this stuff will not kill us.
but sharing this sort of info with other moms seems perfectly normal to me.

i do try hard not to come across as judgmental about food choices. i know many of you work hard daily to lose weight and i admire you all for that.
i have been saying over and over in the past few days that the biggies for me (FOR ME FOR ME FOR ME) are hormones in milk and chicken. i also have made comments that our unhealthy food choices may contribute to demand in these foods - that's not so muhc my judgment as a take-home message from food inc.
anyone who watches it will come home wiht the same message.

Kelly, I do think it is completely normal to be posting these things, and I am glad you have. Like you said, we all know some of the food choices we make are bad, but you have opened my eyes to some things that I didn't know-like beauty products-and I am grateful.

You don't come across as judgmental to me in the least. And you are right too in that we get this info from so many places-heck, watch Dr. Oz any day of the week and you will start feeling like you have to overhaul everything in your house, from the pantry to the linen closet!!! It can be overwhelming, and I think it depends on personality how it is taken. But for me, knowledge is power, and I appreciate getting the information you give, even if I don't make the changes right away. Seriously, I thank you for opening up about all of this stuff. (btw, did I tell you BILL how now banned all plastics from the microwave because of a discussion I had with him about this stuff? That is HUGE for him!!!!)

mctex · Guru

Picture-Perfect wrote:

Kelly, I haven't responded to you directly and i'm sorry for that. I am very proud of you and impressed by the changes you've made. While they are not in the cards for me right now and may never be I never wanted to minimize what you have done or others have done. I think Tex hit on it, for me anyhow in her Lucy Van Pelt post, I will pay her more then 5 cents because she really said a lot of what was in my heart. I think i'm a little too sensitive and i'm not sure why. I do think you should still post, as Melissa said we can all choose to read what like, I hate to mention her since she's finished here but she was right.

You're NOT too sensitive.

That was the point of my post. Everything that has happened here is perfectly natural, and shouldn't be surprising when we really think about it.

It's a good thing that you're sensitive. It means that you care. The world doesn't need less people who care! (Now the people who think they're insensitive are going to get offended that I'm insinuating the world needs less of them, but will thus hypocritically be proving that they are sensitive after all, LOL)

muffy · Guru

daisy wrote:

no one is judging about what lotion they use on their kids. hell, eucerin has been recommended to me over and over by my pediatrician, and it's loaded with petro-chemicals. SERIOUSLY this stuff will not kill us.
but sharing this sort of info with other moms seems perfectly normal to me.

ooh - total tangent - my dermatologist gave this to me for my pregnancy rash. ladies here were kinda right - it wasnt an allergy, but something called gestational prurigo (kinda, but not quite, pupps) and i have been suffering mightily the past month *sigh*. eucerin apparently safe for breastfeeding, whereas i can no longer use cortisone cream. (even kellymom agreed, im that paranoid lol)

anywho, i'll let ya know if it kills me!