kdrew wrote:

---

 

apies wrote:

---

 

Juni wrote:

---

Another question for ya - is she still in an early intervention type of pre-k? It's through the school district, right? If so I am assuming a few things - much smaller classes than other preschools, more one on one with them and probably not as much sensory stimulation as in a lot of classrooms - i.e. multiple stations and being able to float from one things to another.

Of course it could be totally different than our EI preschools though but normally they are different in the size of classes and the sensory overload.

---

thanks so much everyone!

juni, she is in a creative curriculum class, so you hit the nail on the head - i forgot that's what it's called until you said that.

she's in an inclusion preschool class - which means it's regular and special ed kids.  there are 18 of them, 1 content area teacher (pre-k) and then always at least one other person but usually 2-3 others - a special ed teacher and 2 aids.  we found out at the conference that the regular ed teacher has not taught an inclusion class before.  her words: she's had kids with "issues" before but never any with IEPs.  :sigh:

emily is also not socially well or following the daily routine well.  she's just blatantly refusing to do things.  like hanging up her coat when she arrives.  they have to ask her repeatedly and sometimes it takes her 10 minutes to do it.  she comes home after school, takes it off, hangs it on the chair and asks for a snack everyday, but for whatever reason at school, she won't follow their routine.  when it's time to go to PT or OT (2 mornings per week) she FREAKS out and they have to sort of beg and plead with her to go down there with the therapists.  ugh.

she's also not socializing with the other kids.  during stations first thing in the morning, they say she wanders around, socializing with the teachers, etc, but she doesn't really interact with the other kids much.  her attention to the stations is minimal and she more wants to be affectionate with the teachers.  and this isn't for 5 minutes or something - the impression that i got was that it's more like 10-15 minutes of not really interacting with any of the kids or activities.

i totally cried in the conference - her teacher told us that it's like emily "has a piece missing."  definitely not something i wanted to hear.

i'm holding out hope that she's just socially immature and will eventually be more interested in interacting with the other kids in her class.

in the long run, i'm sure that a lot of the immediate concerns will remedy themselves, but i'm not sure what her school future will involve.  next year will most likely be pre-k again - that may or may not be in the same inclusion classroom.  it may be in smaller, special ed classes for different areas, for part of the day or whatever.  idk.  they weren't able to address all of my questions b/c they just don't know the answers.  i need to call the case manager at her school to find out what her options are.

it's upsetting no matter how i look at it.  i just wish i could get her to DO stuff - at home she tends to just hang on me, or watch jake play and not play herself that much.  which i KNOW is so weird for a 4+ year old.  but how do i MAKE her play?  so so frustrating.

i have no idea what to get her for xmas this year b/c she's just not INTO anything.  jake will play with his cars for hours - emily doesn't really have anything that she loves to play with.

i'm just sad and frustrated and sort of disappointed - i really thought that the routine of school would help her blossom - and while i do see growth, i'm so frustrated that she's always several steps behind the other kids and struggling.

sorry that this turned into this huge vent.  but i appreciate all the input.

---

So much of how you've described her reminds me of Sarah and I chalk it up to being young and immature.

She still plays around kids for the most part and with my boys, they didn't play WITH kids until their 4yo pre-school class but I don't really consider Sarah in the 4yo class yet, next year, I'll expect to see that kind of interaction.

I hope it's the same with Em. It seems to me that you have to take what preschool teachers say with a grain of salt because you can't expect kids under Kindergarten or even 1st grade to develop and act the same. They're still so young. I would start to worry in 1st grade when they really need to be keeping up with the level of learning that the other kids are at.

 

 

---

kristi i totally agree.  i went to see a psychologist this summer about R's social skills - he said the range of "normal" is GIGANTIC right now - and that there was nothing at all remotely not normal about R.  he said that preschool teachers have a special way of freaking out parents, and that i should take what they say with a grain of salt (they said there seemed to be social development issues and anxiety issues - the psych did NOT confirm any of this, and was shocked that they'd think there was an issue).  he also said that any further "issues" they see, they should call him directly.  i'm not bashing the preschool teachers persay - they work hard and do a great job - but they could be missing the mark too ya know?
my pediatrician said that you get a much better view of kids' social skills at age 6 (just like you said kristi).  he said that until then, the range-of-normal is just extremely scattered.

 

CoffeeQueen wrote:

---

 

daisy wrote:

---

 

kdrew wrote:

---

 

apies wrote:

---

 

Juni wrote:

---

Another question for ya - is she still in an early intervention type of pre-k? It's through the school district, right? If so I am assuming a few things - much smaller classes than other preschools, more one on one with them and probably not as much sensory stimulation as in a lot of classrooms - i.e. multiple stations and being able to float from one things to another.

Of course it could be totally different than our EI preschools though but normally they are different in the size of classes and the sensory overload.

---

thanks so much everyone!

juni, she is in a creative curriculum class, so you hit the nail on the head - i forgot that's what it's called until you said that.

she's in an inclusion preschool class - which means it's regular and special ed kids.  there are 18 of them, 1 content area teacher (pre-k) and then always at least one other person but usually 2-3 others - a special ed teacher and 2 aids.  we found out at the conference that the regular ed teacher has not taught an inclusion class before.  her words: she's had kids with "issues" before but never any with IEPs.  :sigh:

emily is also not socially well or following the daily routine well.  she's just blatantly refusing to do things.  like hanging up her coat when she arrives.  they have to ask her repeatedly and sometimes it takes her 10 minutes to do it.  she comes home after school, takes it off, hangs it on the chair and asks for a snack everyday, but for whatever reason at school, she won't follow their routine.  when it's time to go to PT or OT (2 mornings per week) she FREAKS out and they have to sort of beg and plead with her to go down there with the therapists.  ugh.

she's also not socializing with the other kids.  during stations first thing in the morning, they say she wanders around, socializing with the teachers, etc, but she doesn't really interact with the other kids much.  her attention to the stations is minimal and she more wants to be affectionate with the teachers.  and this isn't for 5 minutes or something - the impression that i got was that it's more like 10-15 minutes of not really interacting with any of the kids or activities.

i totally cried in the conference - her teacher told us that it's like emily "has a piece missing."  definitely not something i wanted to hear.

i'm holding out hope that she's just socially immature and will eventually be more interested in interacting with the other kids in her class.

in the long run, i'm sure that a lot of the immediate concerns will remedy themselves, but i'm not sure what her school future will involve.  next year will most likely be pre-k again - that may or may not be in the same inclusion classroom.  it may be in smaller, special ed classes for different areas, for part of the day or whatever.  idk.  they weren't able to address all of my questions b/c they just don't know the answers.  i need to call the case manager at her school to find out what her options are.

it's upsetting no matter how i look at it.  i just wish i could get her to DO stuff - at home she tends to just hang on me, or watch jake play and not play herself that much.  which i KNOW is so weird for a 4+ year old.  but how do i MAKE her play?  so so frustrating.

i have no idea what to get her for xmas this year b/c she's just not INTO anything.  jake will play with his cars for hours - emily doesn't really have anything that she loves to play with.

i'm just sad and frustrated and sort of disappointed - i really thought that the routine of school would help her blossom - and while i do see growth, i'm so frustrated that she's always several steps behind the other kids and struggling.

sorry that this turned into this huge vent.  but i appreciate all the input.

---

So much of how you've described her reminds me of Sarah and I chalk it up to being young and immature.

She still plays around kids for the most part and with my boys, they didn't play WITH kids until their 4yo pre-school class but I don't really consider Sarah in the 4yo class yet, next year, I'll expect to see that kind of interaction.

I hope it's the same with Em. It seems to me that you have to take what preschool teachers say with a grain of salt because you can't expect kids under Kindergarten or even 1st grade to develop and act the same. They're still so young. I would start to worry in 1st grade when they really need to be keeping up with the level of learning that the other kids are at.

 

 

---

kristi i totally agree.  i went to see a psychologist this summer about R's social skills - he said the range of "normal" is GIGANTIC right now - and that there was nothing at all remotely not normal about R.  he said that preschool teachers have a special way of freaking out parents, and that i should take what they say with a grain of salt (they said there seemed to be social development issues and anxiety issues - the psych did NOT confirm any of this, and was shocked that they'd think there was an issue).  he also said that any further "issues" they see, they should call him directly.  i'm not bashing the preschool teachers persay - they work hard and do a great job - but they could be missing the mark too ya know?
my pediatrician said that you get a much better view of kids' social skills at age 6 (just like you said kristi).  he said that until then, the range-of-normal is just extremely scattered.

 

 

---

Kelly, have you studied multiple multiple intelligences? I think so  many times schools fail to see this.

 

April - I am really upset at what they said. I honestly do not feel that the teacher that said that understands  children or knows how to handle these types of learning. I wonder if Em feels that from them and that is why she does not do the things they request. I wonder if this is a good fit for her. Do you like the program? You said this is a new teachers.

Can you remind me what Em's therapy was for? I know she was a late walker, but what does the school "label" her as? I know in pubic to be in a IEP they must have a diagnosis so to speak.

 

---

yes definitely, i've done a lot of reading through school on multiple intelligence.  i was just thinking, april, about what a success R's art class was for her last year.  we did little rembrandt (do you have one near you?) - they might even have saturday classes. R's was just a few kids (maybe 4 or 5), very structured setting, and a lot of one-on-one. i felt it spoke directly to my two biggest concerns - socialization and fine motor.  i wasnt going to sink her into something where she'd get lost (like a gym class or whatever).  we did a year of art (in fact thurs is her last class and that completes the year).  i think it was the perfect thing for her.  just another thought.

I haven't seen any tracing in Raven's work. Not even letters. There are a lot of other more fun ways to practice fine motor. With Stephen he didn't like to color/draw so in Kindergarten a lot of his work was scribbling. Apparently coloring was very important to his teacher and he was always being sent home with work to finish.

thanks so much for the input everyone.

i am hoping it's just immaturity plus a summer birthday, but i guess only time will tell.

i left a message for the case manager at her school (she's a psychologist) and will wait for a call back from her. we'll see what she says and then go from there.

i really appreciate all the support here. when i don't know who to talk to, i always know my girls are here to listen.

apies wrote:

---

hey girls.

so at emily's conference last week, we talked about several things that i am now curious about.

they were telling us that she doesn't show much interest in drawing or coloring at school.  they will be "drawing' something and emily will just scribble and say "it's a scribble XXX."  the teacher was concerned it was a lack of confidence in her drawing skills (already?!?!?!? :(), so i asked if she traces if they give her something to trace.  (fyi, we found out that "scribble" came from matt - he's been saying kindly, "emily, don't scribble, draw shapes or letters or whatever..."  he felt awful.)

her teacher informed me that the current preschool school of thought is that tracing isn't encouraged b/c it limits their creativity.  have you guys heard this?

as an english teacher who is aware of how trends come and go (phonics vs. whole language anyone?), i take everything with a grain of salt.  matt and i left the conference VERY concerned about emily's progress.  the next morning, however, for an activity since we were all home (emily's school was closed), i printed out some tracers and give them to her.

um, she traced a flower, a fish and then entire alphabet twice.  then i gave her a blank piece of paper and she said she wanted to draw me.  all i asked her was "if you draw me, what shapes will you draw?"  and she said, "i draw your circle head, mom" and gestured a large circle in the air.  i said, "good em!  now draw what else i have on my head."  that's when she drew eyes, nose, mouth, hair, ears and then added arms, legs and feet.  then i spelled "mommy" to her and she wrote the letters on the paper completely unassisted.  (my fb pic from the other day for those who saw it.)

all of this is what the teachers says she doesn't/won't do at school.  so now i'm thinking that it's not that she CAN'T do the activities - more that she doesn't want to or is too immature to work at that level.  would that make sense dyt?

anyway, we're pretty sure we'll be holding her back next year to repeat pre-k again.  i'm fine with it - we'd talked about it already as a possibility.  i just wish she weren't already bigger than most of her peers.

any thoughts you guys can share would be much appreciated. :)

---

hey april...i asked don and he said this:

there is a trend away from tracing and coloring books because of some research that indicates that kids who do draw freehand develop better artistically and creatively.  I would say that is most appropriate to kids who already have foundational motor and visual integration skills.  However, as an OT I believe it sounds like Emily probably needs to do some tracing in order to develop the visual motor integration skills that are important for hand writing and the development of other fine motor skills, used in conjunction with vision (such as buttoning and shoe tying later in childhood).   I would give her gentle direction towards both activities and not let the teacher get you too concerned.  Art and drawing should be fun and feel productive for Emily and if she has that in those activities it will be meaningful to her and she will pursue...and that part, sticking with it because it is enjoyable, is the most important aspect of writing/drawing, etc.