Hypothetical situation

supergrover · Guru

RE: Hypothetical situation

mctex · Guru

CoffeeQueen wrote:

mctex wrote:

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

If anything, I'd think she'd serve as more of a cautionary tale.

I don't know any middle schoolers who are aspiring cafeteria workers, KWIM?

It is all coming from the fact that it is sending the wrong message to children and that the school should not support it.

It always interests me because everyone is a parent and I always wonder how they would feel if it were their child.

I figured most would be fine with it, but wanted to see the reaction to my hypothetical situation of course.

What message would that be? I honestly don't get it.

I mean, the chick is pregnant. Presumably an abortion isn't exactly a good alternative, either. So what is she supposed to do at that point?

It's shit like this that turns people away from God, who is not the same thing as human interpretation of the Bible and religion. I'm just personally glad that it finally occurred to me to make the distinction. Because this kind of thing is disgusting.

supergrover · Guru

ps- if it is a christian school, then power to them. I think it is unfortunate, but really, they can have all the morality clause they want. Even if I think it is hypocritical ashamed

Juni · Guru

mctex wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

mctex wrote:

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

If anything, I'd think she'd serve as more of a cautionary tale.

I don't know any middle schoolers who are aspiring cafeteria workers, KWIM?

It is all coming from the fact that it is sending the wrong message to children and that the school should not support it.

It always interests me because everyone is a parent and I always wonder how they would feel if it were their child.

I figured most would be fine with it, but wanted to see the reaction to my hypothetical situation of course.

What message would that be? I honestly don't get it.

I mean, the chick is pregnant. Presumably an abortion isn't exactly a good alternative, either. So what is she supposed to do at that point?

It's shit like this that turns people away from God, who is not the same thing as human interpretation of the Bible and religion. I'm just personally glad that it finally occurred to me to make the distinction. Because this kind of thing is disgusting.

I was just going to post almost exactly what your last paragraph said. I would love to know what their intentions are. IMO it sends the very opposite message to your children. Now they are super aware of this unmarried, pregnant teacher and look at that sinner! PLEASE!!! If you are so against it then let it be the conversation starter to discuss the topic with their children.

I honestly think that most parents have such a problem with it because it then brings topics like these up and they really don't want to talk to their children about it. Sex talks, pregnancy, parents seem more inclined to ignore it than talk about it but they can't when kids have questions from things they see.

But, christian school or not, do they honestly think that their children are not being exposed to things that are different than their beliefs? I don't know. I've changed so much in the last few years though I don't know that I would have had a different answer anyway. I find it to be really insensitive to that girl. I can't see how seeing her would make a child want to choose to go out and have sex and get pregnant.

mctex · Guru

CoffeeQueen wrote:

total devils advocate, but I find something interesting.

If a teacher who was young and unmarried was pregnant would it make the difference. There seems to be a lot of mention of the fact she is JUST a cafeteria worker. I mean in a sense to me that is saying that if she had a higher position that it would hold more influence?

I guess to me it makes no difference what she is/does. To me I guess I was looking more at the fact of do you have a problem morally with someone in a school setting that is working with kids.

I do find it interesting how her position is looked at as not one that kids would look up to. I mean would it be ok for the janitor, but not the teacher? People that work in a school have direct contact with children regardless of their capacity.

See, really I guess it is all the same. People determine or discriminate without realizing it. I mean essentially that is what those parents are doing also, no? Am I going way off?

It is interesting to get opinions from different people. I will say each side feels the exact opposite from the other.

Yeah, I think you're going way off. biggrin

Not everyone in a school setting has an equal impact on children.

A teacher, by definition, is tasked with molding a child's thoughts and intellect.

The cafeteria worker probably doesn't even get to decide what to feed them. She just puts food on a plate.

So yes, the role does definitely matter, and I can't see at all how that's discriminatory.

(Although I wouldn't care if an unwed mother was a teacher, either. I would care if she were 18, though, because of a lack of experience, maturity, and presumably a college degree.)

Also, saying that I don't want my child to end up working in a cafeteria at 18 while knocked up isn't discriminatory, either.

Judging people who end up in that situation is.

I feel there's a HUGE difference.

(I also would prefer my kids not go to Harvard, too. I feel like Harvard grads probably wouldn't take offense to this... LOL!)

Toni · Guru

mctex wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

mctex wrote:

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

If anything, I'd think she'd serve as more of a cautionary tale.

I don't know any middle schoolers who are aspiring cafeteria workers, KWIM?

It is all coming from the fact that it is sending the wrong message to children and that the school should not support it.

It always interests me because everyone is a parent and I always wonder how they would feel if it were their child.

I figured most would be fine with it, but wanted to see the reaction to my hypothetical situation of course.

What message would that be? I honestly don't get it.

I mean, the chick is pregnant. Presumably an abortion isn't exactly a good alternative, either. So what is she supposed to do at that point?

It's shit like this that turns people away from God, who is not the same thing as human interpretation of the Bible and religion. I'm just personally glad that it finally occurred to me to make the distinction. Because this kind of thing is disgusting.

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking. To me, they are advocating two alternatives: 1) send her away until her "problem" is not so obvious, or 2) abortion.

I just think we are living in an age where sex is, if not more prevelant, more common in mainstream culture. Perhaps letting the older kids see that this could be their future is a valuable lesson.

And what is it that Christians say about throwing stones...

Toni · Guru

If it were an unmarried teacher, it still wouldn't bother me. Because in order to be in a postion of leadership within a school, one has to have finished schooling and started their lives anyway.

I think a grown woman is entitled to make whatever decisions she wants with her life. Unless she is sharing stories of her sexual exploits to her class, I would not have a problem.

3s_a_crowd · Guru

im coming back to this just one last time.

I personally as a parent just at a school in general with no backround knowledge of the school and the rules have no problem with her serving lunch.

LOL I am amused at how worked up I got over this. I am PMSing and am just taking everything wrong lately. Sorry for the side tangent.

happylib · Guru

I don't have a problem with it. I also know that as a teacher I had to sign a morality clause for the public school and as a parent along with my son we had to sign one for the private Catholic school. If their morality clause is violated and the consequence is the loss of her job, they can legally do it.

Now, as a christian school, I personally would have problems with them if they did not let her work because:

If they want her to be disgraced and shamed, aren't they not following the teaching of Christ who taught us not to cast stones?

Wouldn't this, as others have said, encourage abortion?

If their assertion that this young woman is a bad role model, wouldn't her getting abortion be one too?

She is working so that she can take care of herself and her child. Taking away her job would take away her ability to do that, even if only temporary.

Maybe I have been hearing it wrong all these years, but I am pretty sure that by in large, the Christian faith is all about forgiveness. Christ dying on the cross might be the most obvious clue!

I also don't personally know a teen that keeps a tally sheet of al the people he/she knows that have had sex, at what age, and if it was before marriage. I think there is so much that needs to happen on the parents end during the child's informative years (not just a teen) that it is going to prevail over one young woman's situation. Teens that feel lonely, unloved, low self esteem, etc. are more likely to have sex. Not because they heard/saw in MS this one cafeteria worker.

kdrew · Guru

supergrover wrote:

I skimmed the responses, but not carefully- to be honest.

I would have no issue.
Also no issue if she was my childrens (certified) teacher. That is one hell of an 18 year old to do that, lol.
I honestly don't care if they are gay, tranny, male, female, disabled, pierced, whatever.

Do you have a connection with my children. Do you help them learn to LOVE to learn? That is what I care about.

(and that you are not some creepy ass pedophile).

I soooo agree!!

sappy · Guru

supergrover wrote:

I skimmed the responses, but not carefully- to be honest.

I would have no issue.
Also no issue if she was my childrens (certified) teacher. That is one hell of an 18 year old to do that, lol.
I honestly don't care if they are gay, tranny, male, female, disabled, pierced, whatever.

Do you have a connection with my children. Do you help them learn to LOVE to learn? That is what I care about.

(and that you are not some creepy ass pedophile).

ditto

ditto

ditto

ditto

should i say it again!? wink

Alicia · Senior Member

Would middle school kids ask questions about this or even care? They probably didn't think anything of it until the parents did.

Alicia · Senior Member

mctex wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

mctex wrote:

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

If anything, I'd think she'd serve as more of a cautionary tale.

I don't know any middle schoolers who are aspiring cafeteria workers, KWIM?

It is all coming from the fact that it is sending the wrong message to children and that the school should not support it.

It always interests me because everyone is a parent and I always wonder how they would feel if it were their child.

I figured most would be fine with it, but wanted to see the reaction to my hypothetical situation of course.

What message would that be? I honestly don't get it.

I mean, the chick is pregnant. Presumably an abortion isn't exactly a good alternative, either. So what is she supposed to do at that point?

It's shit like this that turns people away from God, who is not the same thing as human interpretation of the Bible and religion. I'm just personally glad that it finally occurred to me to make the distinction. Because this kind of thing is disgusting.

I was 20 year old single christian when I got pregnant with Stephen. I still remember sitting in church with him preaching against abortions yet ignoring the young pregnant girl. My granny preached to us about saving sex for marriage and I knew I disappointed her. I found out years later that she wasn't married when my mom was conceived/born. I think she missed out on a wonderful opportunity to witness to me. I think if I had been around christians like Jennifer I would still consider myself a christian.

CoffeeQueen · Guru

kdrew wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

total devils advocate, but I find something interesting.

If a teacher who was young and unmarried was pregnant would it make the difference. There seems to be a lot of mention of the fact she is JUST a cafeteria worker. I mean in a sense to me that is saying that if she had a higher position that it would hold more influence?

I guess to me it makes no difference what she is/does. To me I guess I was looking more at the fact of do you have a problem morally with someone in a school setting that is working with kids.

I do find it interesting how her position is looked at as not one that kids would look up to. I mean would it be ok for the janitor, but not the teacher? People that work in a school have direct contact with children regardless of their capacity.

See, really I guess it is all the same. People determine or discriminate without realizing it. I mean essentially that is what those parents are doing also, no? Am I going way off?

It is interesting to get opinions from different people. I will say each side feels the exact opposite from the other.

If it was a teacher I would still have no problem with it.

It all goes back to the parents, I think and how open they are with their middle school children with teaching them about sex.

I hope that what I teach my children about being responsible and safe will stick with them and if they see an 18 year old unwed pregnant lady they won't think, hey I'm gonna go have sex, if she can do it, let's all do it.

Kind of silly to think our kids would be that dumb.

I think the pregnant lunch lady would probably be the last thing my daughter would think about if her boyfriend is pressuring her into sex.

She would hopefully being thinking about the lessons we've taught her.

As far as just her being present in the school and and tarnishing the perfect image of a family with a married mom and dad...I can't even wrap my head around that way of thinking.

I agree, Krisi. This is why I am so interested in why parents are so up in arms over a situation like this. Maybe that is just it. Maybe I cannot wrap my head around it a and why I wondered what others thought.

CoffeeQueen · Guru

Juni wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

total devils advocate, but I find something interesting.

If a teacher who was young and unmarried was pregnant would it make the difference. There seems to be a lot of mention of the fact she is JUST a cafeteria worker. I mean in a sense to me that is saying that if she had a higher position that it would hold more influence?

I guess to me it makes no difference what she is/does. To me I guess I was looking more at the fact of do you have a problem morally with someone in a school setting that is working with kids.

I do find it interesting how her position is looked at as not one that kids would look up to. I mean would it be ok for the janitor, but not the teacher? People that work in a school have direct contact with children regardless of their capacity.

See, really I guess it is all the same. People determine or discriminate without realizing it. I mean essentially that is what those parents are doing also, no? Am I going way off?

It is interesting to get opinions from different people. I will say each side feels the exact opposite from the other.

For me the only reason I pointed out about the role model thing was in reference to parent's saying that makes her a bad role model. Which I guess is flawed in the sense that I do think it is good for children to look at teachers and see them as role models (so long as they are positive influences - just being a teacher doesn't automatically qualify in my book) but I still wouldn't have a problem with a pregnant, unmarried teacher.

I guess the fact is if people are worried because she is unmarried - there is only one way their children would know that - if they told them. And even then I just really don't think it's an issue. If there is a morality clause that is totally different - the question is how would you feel, right? So, yeah, teacher, cafeteria worker, janitor - I would not have an issue with my child being around that. And I am very much in the camp of thinking that sex should be saved until marriage but I find that to be a very personal choice and not something I extend onto others.

I ju
st feel like we are in this phase where so many parents are trying to control every single aspect of their children's lives and what they are exposed to and in the meantime they are missing out on what is really going on and their children are not learning what they actually want them to learn. It's bizarre to me.

totally true - it is OUT OF control.

CoffeeQueen · Guru

mctex wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

mctex wrote:

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

If anything, I'd think she'd serve as more of a cautionary tale.

I don't know any middle schoolers who are aspiring cafeteria workers, KWIM?

It is all coming from the fact that it is sending the wrong message to children and that the school should not support it.

It always interests me because everyone is a parent and I always wonder how they would feel if it were their child.

I figured most would be fine with it, but wanted to see the reaction to my hypothetical situation of course.

What message would that be? I honestly don't get it.

I mean, the chick is pregnant. Presumably an abortion isn't exactly a good alternative, either. So what is she supposed to do at that point?

It's shit like this that turns people away from God, who is not the same thing as human interpretation of the Bible and religion. I'm just personally glad that it finally occurred to me to make the distinction. Because this kind of thing is disgusting.

Yes, my thoughts exactly. These same groups of people are the ones who believe to be very religious and the only thing I can think of is it scares them or something. I am very interested to hear what happens in this situation.

CoffeeQueen · Guru

mctex wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

total devils advocate, but I find something interesting.

If a teacher who was young and unmarried was pregnant would it make the difference. There seems to be a lot of mention of the fact she is JUST a cafeteria worker. I mean in a sense to me that is saying that if she had a higher position that it would hold more influence?

I guess to me it makes no difference what she is/does. To me I guess I was looking more at the fact of do you have a problem morally with someone in a school setting that is working with kids.

I do find it interesting how her position is looked at as not one that kids would look up to. I mean would it be ok for the janitor, but not the teacher? People that work in a school have direct contact with children regardless of their capacity.

See, really I guess it is all the same. People determine or discriminate without realizing it. I mean essentially that is what those parents are doing also, no? Am I going way off?

It is interesting to get opinions from different people. I will say each side feels the exact opposite from the other.

Yeah, I think you're going way off.

Not everyone in a school setting has an equal impact on children.

A teacher, by definition, is tasked with molding a child's thoughts and intellect.

The cafeteria worker probably doesn't even get to decide what to feed them. She just puts food on a plate.

So yes, the role does definitely matter, and I can't see at all how that's discriminatory.

(Although I wouldn't care if an unwed mother was a teacher, either. I would care if she were 18, though, because of a lack of experience, maturity, and presumably a college degree.)

Also, saying that I don't want my child to end up working in a cafeteria at 18 while knocked up isn't discriminatory, either.

Judging people who end up in that situation is.

I feel there's a HUGE difference.

(I also would prefer my kids not go to Harvard, too. I feel like Harvard grads probably wouldn't take offense to this... LOL!)

I understand that, but I still do not think it makes a difference what the person is employed as in the school. To me the issue is that there is even an issue with this.

I was just flipping it because the fact she was a cafeteria worker seemed to come up more. I was more interested in the fact of how parents feel about a unwed, young pregnant women working with children.

Actually, this setting of this school the cafeteria workers do have a lot of interaction with the students. It is very much a family setting and that is maybe why I was flipping it like that.

CoffeeQueen · Guru

Toni wrote:

mctex wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

mctex wrote:

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

If anything, I'd think she'd serve as more of a cautionary tale.

I don't know any middle schoolers who are aspiring cafeteria workers, KWIM?

It is all coming from the fact that it is sending the wrong message to children and that the school should not support it.

It always interests me because everyone is a parent and I always wonder how they would feel if it were their child.

I figured most would be fine with it, but wanted to see the reaction to my hypothetical situation of course.

What message would that be? I honestly don't get it.

I mean, the chick is pregnant. Presumably an abortion isn't exactly a good alternative, either. So what is she supposed to do at that point?

It's shit like this that turns people away from God, who is not the same thing as human interpretation of the Bible and religion. I'm just personally glad that it finally occurred to me to make the distinction. Because this kind of thing is disgusting.

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking. To me, they are advocating two alternatives: 1) send her away until her "problem" is not so obvious, or 2) abortion.

I just think we are living in an age where sex is, if not more prevelant, more common in mainstream culture. Perhaps letting the older kids see that this could be their future is a valuable lesson.

And what is it that Christians say about throwing stones...

It is very hard for me as a Christian to understand it. It really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I think I was really surprised when I heard this and thought maybe I was off base.

From what I hear. They think that a pregnant, unwed 18 year old should just not work in a school. That is the bottom line for them. It is almost as they do not care where she goes or what she does, but just not in front of my children.

These people do still exist in the world.

CoffeeQueen · Guru

Alicia wrote:

Would middle school kids ask questions about this or even care? They probably didn't think anything of it until the parents did.

You are most likely true.

kris · Guru

Alicia wrote:

Would middle school kids ask questions about this or even care? They probably didn't think anything of it until the parents did.

this is exactly what I was thinking.

I have a middle school student. He would have NO CLUE that this girl was 18 years old or that she was unwed and wouldn't know she was pregnant until it became glaringly obvious. How would he know this info? Also, how would the parents find out? I just can't imagine my son bringing this info home to me.

I think situations like this have to be used as learning tools - there are children my son goes to school with who have had pregnant sisters, cousins, etc. I use those stories he tells me as opportunities to open dialogue with him on the topic.