So, just to compound the issue a bit more...

CoffeeQueen · Guru

RE: So, just to compound the issue a bit more...

Juni · Guru

Juanita wrote:

Juni wrote:

Juanita wrote:

Juni wrote:

muffy wrote:

my thought is that since they pretty much are NOT testing for the actual H1N1, and are just assuming that "all" cases are hat, i am betting that people are often getting a mixture of the regular flu and h1n1, thus twice.

they have said all along that they are different and thus the reason people should get two different vaccines this year.

i mean, the "normal" flu didnt just disappear... and we can't forget that the "normal" flu kills over 35,000 Americans each year - AND to be fair and acurate that needs to be considered into the count when determining the actual h1n1 deaths.

anyone but me find it slightly hypocritical that when they are scaring us with h1n1 death figures they are counting "all" flu deaths as h1n1 (i am reaching this conclusion based on the fact they pretty much stopped specifically testing for h1n1 last spring), YET when they are counting possible side efects from the h1n1 vaccine they are not counting ANY serious ones because is can't be specifically attributed....

things that make you go hhmmm....

So check this out. My BIL went in to the doctor. He is sick. They do a flu test on him that comes back negative and he is told that he has the swine flu because his symptoms match up so it has to be. And also that there are a lot of false negatives (first time I heard that.) He is now on tamiflu. I just don't get it. Tamiflu is a wonder drug but it seems like it is being handed out like candy - won't that make it less effective AND make the flu more dangerous? I'm totally confused. And why would they say he still has it if the test was negative???

Is this day 1 of him being sick?

No, it wasn't.

Well, if they tested him for the seasonal flu, which is what they do in the doc's office, those tests don't show H1N1, they only show Type A and Type B. So, he could have a negative test and still have the flu.

Unless they actually send out and test it, there's no way of confirming it, so they just treat anybody that has symptoms of the flu as having the flu.

There is such things as false negatives though, even with the rapid flu test (the one they do in the doc's office), so bascially they just treat the symptoms.

If it's H1N1 wouldn't it show up at type A flu?

CoffeeQueen · Guru

ok, just spoke with our nurse. Here is the scoop she gave me.

In house Dr. can do the test for this. It is 75 per test and is only 50% accurate. There are false pos. and such forth. That may be why if you are showing the symptoms they are treating.

The other test for H1N1 that is done off site is expensive and most Dr. are not not sending out because of the crazy cost.

So, I guess that is right.

never mind - Jenn just said it and better

-- Edited by CoffeeQueen on Tuesday 3rd of November 2009 11:44:51 AM

Juanita · Guru

Juni wrote:

Juanita wrote:

Juni wrote:

Juanita wrote:

Juni wrote:

muffy wrote:

So check this out. My BIL went in to the doctor. He is sick. They do a flu test on him that comes back negative and he is told that he has the swine flu because his symptoms match up so it has to be. And also that there are a lot of false negatives (first time I heard that.) He is now on tamiflu. I just don't get it. Tamiflu is a wonder drug but it seems like it is being handed out like candy - won't that make it less effective AND make the flu more dangerous? I'm totally confused. And why would they say he still has it if the test was negative???

Is this day 1 of him being sick?

No, it wasn't.

Well, if they tested him for the seasonal flu, which is what they do in the doc's office, those tests don't show H1N1, they only show Type A and Type B. So, he could have a negative test and still have the flu.

Unless they actually send out and test it, there's no way of confirming it, so they just treat anybody that has symptoms of the flu as having the flu.

There is such things as false negatives though, even with the rapid flu test (the one they do in the doc's office), so bascially they just treat the symptoms.

If it's H1N1 wouldn't it show up at type A flu?

No. While H1N1 is a Type A influenza, not all Type A's are the swine. There is more than one Type A influenza

Juni · Guru

Juanita wrote:

Juni wrote:

Juanita wrote:

Juni wrote:

Juanita wrote:

Juni wrote:

muffy wrote:

So check this out. My BIL went in to the doctor. He is sick. They do a flu test on him that comes back negative and he is told that he has the swine flu because his symptoms match up so it has to be. And also that there are a lot of false negatives (first time I heard that.) He is now on tamiflu. I just don't get it. Tamiflu is a wonder drug but it seems like it is being handed out like candy - won't that make it less effective AND make the flu more dangerous? I'm totally confused. And why would they say he still has it if the test was negative???

Is this day 1 of him being sick?

No, it wasn't.

Well, if they tested him for the seasonal flu, which is what they do in the doc's office, those tests don't show H1N1, they only show Type A and Type B. So, he could have a negative test and still have the flu.

Unless they actually send out and test it, there's no way of confirming it, so they just treat anybody that has symptoms of the flu as having the flu.

There is such things as false negatives though, even with the rapid flu test (the one they do in the doc's office), so bascially they just treat the symptoms.

If it's H1N1 wouldn't it show up at type A flu?

No. While H1N1 is a Type A influenza, not all Type A's are the swine. There is more than one Type A influenza

I feel like it's one of those math problems. I know all Type A is not swine but if h1n1 IS a type A influenza, why wouldn't it show up as such on the flu test?

-- Edited by Juni on Tuesday 3rd of November 2009 11:40:18 AM

3s_a_crowd · Guru

right jen, but if he tested negative for type a wouldnt that mean its practically impossible he has h1n1

-- Edited by 3s_a_crowd on Tuesday 3rd of November 2009 11:40:57 AM

Juni · Guru

3s_a_crowd wrote:

right jen, but if he tested negative for type a wouldnt that mean its practically impossible he has h1n1

-- Edited by 3s_a_crowd on Tuesday 3rd of November 2009 11:40:57 AM

This is exactly what I'm wondering. :)

Juanita · Guru

3s_a_crowd wrote:

right jen, but if he tested negative for type a wouldnt that mean its practically impossible he has h1n1

-- Edited by 3s_a_crowd on Tuesday 3rd of November 2009 11:40:57 AM

No. You can't diagnose swine flu with the rapid test, period. There is no quick test for it, you have to send it off and it takes days to confirm weather it's H1N1.

Those rapid tests can only tell you if it's type a or b, and there are all sorts of variables that go along with all that too.

It's a crapshoot basically, which is why all these cases you hear are swine flu, probably aren't. Sure some are, but there's no way of knowing if they all are unless they're sent off to a lab to confirm it.

Juni · Guru

nvm. I am wasting too much energy nitpicking this to death.

-- Edited by Juni on Tuesday 3rd of November 2009 11:59:07 AM

Juanita · Guru

Juni wrote:

nvm. I am wasting too much energy nitpicking this to death.

-- Edited by Juni on Tuesday 3rd of November 2009 11:59:07 AM

LOL.

Jen, it's all about microbiolgy that I HATED in school, lol. There are so many factors that go into those tests, how much snot you get, how it's applied to the control, etc..it's just too many variables to have to think about.

Which is why doctors treat the symptoms. If the symptoms are typical of the flu, they treat it like that.

Jennie · Guru

CoffeeQueen wrote:

Juni wrote:

muffy wrote:

my thought is that since they pretty much are NOT testing for the actual H1N1, and are just assuming that "all" cases are hat, i am betting that people are often getting a mixture of the regular flu and h1n1, thus twice.

they have said all along that they are different and thus the reason people should get two different vaccines this year.

i mean, the "normal" flu didnt just disappear... and we can't forget that the "normal" flu kills over 35,000 Americans each year - AND to be fair and acurate that needs to be considered into the count when determining the actual h1n1 deaths.

anyone but me find it slightly hypocritical that when they are scaring us with h1n1 death figures they are counting "all" flu deaths as h1n1 (i am reaching this conclusion based on the fact they pretty much stopped specifically testing for h1n1 last spring), YET when they are counting possible side efects from the h1n1 vaccine they are not counting ANY serious ones because is can't be specifically attributed....

things that make you go hhmmm....

So check this out. My BIL went in to the doctor. He is sick. They do a flu test on him that comes back negative and he is told that he has the swine flu because his symptoms match up so it has to be. And also that there are a lot of false negatives (first time I heard that.) He is now on tamiflu. I just don't get it. Tamiflu is a wonder drug but it seems like it is being handed out like candy - won't that make it less effective AND make the flu more dangerous? I'm totally confused. And why would they say he still has it if the test was negative???

Crazy, that is a first hearing that for me. Who knows what is the truth. A lot of the Dr.'s here are not giving out the tamaflu unless they are testing pos.
I mean there are colds and that going on. So weird and everyone is right on this, so who is really right?

My line of thinking.

I've been following all of these H1N1 threads but never really saying anything except I wasn't sure whether or not I was doing the shots for DH and Colin. I don't qualify. If I did I would do it to protect my daughter.
I've been talking to my husband about this. I show him all the threads and we discuss. Its easier b/c I don't have to worry about being misunderstood, going back and explaining myself, and being flamed..
But briefly- and I'm not saying this about anyone here but about society, etc- its so easy to believe the negative hype.
And as for not testing for the actual H1N1 strain- doesn't it take a week for the results to come back? So by that point wouldn't it make it a moot point for the Tamiflu if it has to be given within the first 48 hours? Or would the person have the specimen sent to the state lab to be tested for the H1N1 and still be given the Tamiflu while waiting for the results?
And can't a parent just demand it be sent to the state lab? We're the ones paying for it in the end? Our taxes pay for all of this so why can't we have a say as to what happens to our money at the end of the day?

Its that time of the month...I'm a bit grouchy.
biggrin

Jennie · Guru

Supa- I'm sorry that Kate is sick again. I hope she gets better soon. And moreover that Anna doesn't get sick again.

How's Bill doing?

Picture-Perfect · Guru

Jennie, just wanted to add our experience, Hannah tested positive for type A influenza last Thursday, They did a rapid test. We got tamiflu because whether seasonal or h1n1 from what I understand they are treating with tamiflu, in my pedi's office they are not sending many out to be confirmation tested any longer because every single one that they have sent out is h1n1 not a case of seasonal flu in there. Now that doesn't mean there are not, especially since they are not doing the confirmation test on every case but I think based on the cost, I heard it's hundreds of dollars, if you test positive for type A they are giving tamiflu, which this has been our first experience with that drug, but I think it really helped Hannah. If it's true how much the confirmation costs i'm ok with the rapid test and not knowing for sure since it is treated the same. She got sick Thursday felt awful Thurs and Friday but was really getting better by Saturday. The baby has also been taking it in hopes that he doesn't get sick, I have to say... tamiflu is EXPENSIVE, maybe not for everyone but with our insurance which I think is generally pretty good it cost me $167.00 just for the tamiflu the amox for baby's ears and the heavy duty cough syrup for Han added another $20, I don't think our pedi would have given us the rx without testing Hannah and if he had I don't think I would have filled it. When I did fill it the pharmacist said he is filling it 40 times a day at least right now :O I was shocked.

kdrew · Guru

Juanita wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

Juanita wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

another thing I find interesting is that this has only been around for 5 months. If the truth was that this has not had as many deaths as the seasonal type A flu then how can we know? We are not even sure how long this runs? It started in Mexico in what, april? So, I am not sure how that can true in terms of total deaths compared to seasonal.

I am not sure where the data all comes from and like this vaccine, every Dr. has an opinion.

Also, at least in my experience with the flu and in years past with the kids here. The flu has not knocked them out for such long periods as this strain has. That is where I see the difference. I cannot tell you how many kids are better one day, down the next, etc. a week later sick again from secondary issues. It is really hitting the youngs immune system if you ask me. That is where I see it being different in a sense.

I had to come back and add this. I hope you do not think I am some H1N1 freak,lol. I guess I do not think this is some conspiracy theory. I think that there are most likely many factors involved. I guess what troubles me is that with the seaonal flu in years past it has not caused those that have asthma and that to be out over a week. I mean sure the seasonal flu is worse on the elderly, immune compromised. However, so far that is not the case with this strain. That I guess is what makes me go hmmm.

-- Edited by CoffeeQueen on Tuesday 3rd of November 2009 10:12:24 AM

I'm just a tad bit confused with your thinking here, so help me out.

Are you saying that kids with asthma don't usually stay down for a week with the seasonal flu?

And about the elderly..you're wondering why this H1N1 isn't affecting them like it's affecting the young?

In what I have been witnessing. Even those who are not immune compromised are being hit hard (young kids.) Also, yes - I am seeing it have longer then normal effects on those who do have asthma, etc. I know the seasonal flu is deadly, but on a whole here it seems to have been worse then the 10 years I have seen with just seasonal flu. This is just in this months period.

okay, let me explain it to you.

The reason it's hitting the young so hard, and not hitting older adults (and adults my age even) as hard is because the adults have seen it before, some more than others. Young kids haven't seen this strain before so it hits them harder.
ETA: so because kids haven't seen this strain, those that are immune compromised are being hit especially hard and it takes them longer to get over it because they don't have the antibodies to fight it

-- Edited by Juanita on Tuesday 3rd of November 2009 10:36:33 AM

Just an interesting tidbit, and I have no idea if it's true or not, but I was watching a report about a doctor that has been studying H1N1 and he said that the strain is similar, but not ANYWHERE near as bad, as the strain that killed all of those people in the early 1900's.

Therefore he has concluded that anyone born before 1950 is more safe from H1N1 than others because they already have an immunity to this type of flu.

That's why he thinks it's not hitting old people as hard as young.

Again it's just one guy studying this so who knows but I just found that interesting.

Makes me a little less scared for my parents.

kdrew · Guru

Juni wrote:

muffy wrote:

my thought is that since they pretty much are NOT testing for the actual H1N1, and are just assuming that "all" cases are hat, i am betting that people are often getting a mixture of the regular flu and h1n1, thus twice.

they have said all along that they are different and thus the reason people should get two different vaccines this year.

i mean, the "normal" flu didnt just disappear... and we can't forget that the "normal" flu kills over 35,000 Americans each year - AND to be fair and acurate that needs to be considered into the count when determining the actual h1n1 deaths.

anyone but me find it slightly hypocritical that when they are scaring us with h1n1 death figures they are counting "all" flu deaths as h1n1 (i am reaching this conclusion based on the fact they pretty much stopped specifically testing for h1n1 last spring), YET when they are counting possible side efects from the h1n1 vaccine they are not counting ANY serious ones because is can't be specifically attributed....

things that make you go hhmmm....

So check this out. My BIL went in to the doctor. He is sick. They do a flu test on him that comes back negative and he is told that he has the swine flu because his symptoms match up so it has to be. And also that there are a lot of false negatives (first time I heard that.) He is now on tamiflu. I just don't get it. Tamiflu is a wonder drug but it seems like it is being handed out like candy - won't that make it less effective AND make the flu more dangerous? I'm totally confused. And why would they say he still has it if the test was negative???

I think a lot of it has to do with the doc.

I've heard both stories, some people are passing it out like candy, some say absolutely not unless you test positive.

It's like antibiotics for ear infections and sore throats.

Some doctors are just more willing to pass out scrips to anyone who walks in the door and some are more worried about it becoming less effective if they give it out too much.

:dunno

CoffeeQueen · Guru

Picture-Perfect wrote:

Jennie, just wanted to add our experience, Hannah tested positive for type A influenza last Thursday, They did a rapid test. We got tamiflu because whether seasonal or h1n1 from what I understand they are treating with tamiflu, in my pedi's office they are not sending many out to be confirmation tested any longer because every single one that they have sent out is h1n1 not a case of seasonal flu in there. Now that doesn't mean there are not, especially since they are not doing the confirmation test on every case but I think based on the cost, I heard it's hundreds of dollars, if you test positive for type A they are giving tamiflu, which this has been our first experience with that drug, but I think it really helped Hannah. If it's true how much the confirmation costs i'm ok with the rapid test and not knowing for sure since it is treated the same. She got sick Thursday felt awful Thurs and Friday but was really getting better by Saturday. The baby has also been taking it in hopes that he doesn't get sick, I have to say... tamiflu is EXPENSIVE, maybe not for everyone but with our insurance which I think is generally pretty good it cost me $167.00 just for the tamiflu the amox for baby's ears and the heavy duty cough syrup for Han added another $20, I don't think our pedi would have given us the rx without testing Hannah and if he had I don't think I would have filled it. When I did fill it the pharmacist said he is filling it 40 times a day at least right now :O I was shocked.

They treat even seasonal flu with Tamaflu, so it is not as if this is new. Gosh, had no idea the cost on it. Do you have a prescription drug plan with your insurance? Just wonder in case we need this.

CoffeeQueen · Guru

kdrew wrote:

Juni wrote:

muffy wrote:

my thought is that since they pretty much are NOT testing for the actual H1N1, and are just assuming that "all" cases are hat, i am betting that people are often getting a mixture of the regular flu and h1n1, thus twice.

they have said all along that they are different and thus the reason people should get two different vaccines this year.

i mean, the "normal" flu didnt just disappear... and we can't forget that the "normal" flu kills over 35,000 Americans each year - AND to be fair and acurate that needs to be considered into the count when determining the actual h1n1 deaths.

anyone but me find it slightly hypocritical that when they are scaring us with h1n1 death figures they are counting "all" flu deaths as h1n1 (i am reaching this conclusion based on the fact they pretty much stopped specifically testing for h1n1 last spring), YET when they are counting possible side efects from the h1n1 vaccine they are not counting ANY serious ones because is can't be specifically attributed....

things that make you go hhmmm....

So check this out. My BIL went in to the doctor. He is sick. They do a flu test on him that comes back negative and he is told that he has the swine flu because his symptoms match up so it has to be. And also that there are a lot of false negatives (first time I heard that.) He is now on tamiflu. I just don't get it. Tamiflu is a wonder drug but it seems like it is being handed out like candy - won't that make it less effective AND make the flu more dangerous? I'm totally confused. And why would they say he still has it if the test was negative???

I think a lot of it has to do with the doc.

I've heard both stories, some people are passing it out like candy, some say absolutely not unless you test positive.

It's like antibiotics for ear infections and sore throats.

Some doctors are just more willing to pass out scrips to anyone who walks in the door and some are more worried about it becoming less effective if they give it out too much.

:dunno

very true - some doc are more conservative with meds then others. I know when I just had the reg. type A flu two years ago I missed the window for the tamaflu. Had I known I would have had my arse to the Dr. sooner.

Juanita · Guru

kdrew wrote:

Juanita wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

Juanita wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

another thing I find interesting is that this has only been around for 5 months. If the truth was that this has not had as many deaths as the seasonal type A flu then how can we know? We are not even sure how long this runs? It started in Mexico in what, april? So, I am not sure how that can true in terms of total deaths compared to seasonal.

I am not sure where the data all comes from and like this vaccine, every Dr. has an opinion.

Also, at least in my experience with the flu and in years past with the kids here. The flu has not knocked them out for such long periods as this strain has. That is where I see the difference. I cannot tell you how many kids are better one day, down the next, etc. a week later sick again from secondary issues. It is really hitting the youngs immune system if you ask me. That is where I see it being different in a sense.

I had to come back and add this. I hope you do not think I am some H1N1 freak,lol. I guess I do not think this is some conspiracy theory. I think that there are most likely many factors involved. I guess what troubles me is that with the seaonal flu in years past it has not caused those that have asthma and that to be out over a week. I mean sure the seasonal flu is worse on the elderly, immune compromised. However, so far that is not the case with this strain. That I guess is what makes me go hmmm.

-- Edited by CoffeeQueen on Tuesday 3rd of November 2009 10:12:24 AM

I'm just a tad bit confused with your thinking here, so help me out.

Are you saying that kids with asthma don't usually stay down for a week with the seasonal flu?

And about the elderly..you're wondering why this H1N1 isn't affecting them like it's affecting the young?

In what I have been witnessing. Even those who are not immune compromised are being hit hard (young kids.) Also, yes - I am seeing it have longer then normal effects on those who do have asthma, etc. I know the seasonal flu is deadly, but on a whole here it seems to have been worse then the 10 years I have seen with just seasonal flu. This is just in this months period.

okay, let me explain it to you.

The reason it's hitting the young so hard, and not hitting older adults (and adults my age even) as hard is because the adults have seen it before, some more than others. Young kids haven't seen this strain before so it hits them harder.
ETA: so because kids haven't seen this strain, those that are immune compromised are being hit especially hard and it takes them longer to get over it because they don't have the antibodies to fight it

-- Edited by Juanita on Tuesday 3rd of November 2009 10:36:33 AM
Just an interesting tidbit, and I have no idea if it's true or not, but I was watching a report about a doctor that has been studying H1N1 and he said that the strain is similar, but not ANYWHERE near as bad, as the strain that killed all of those people in the early 1900's.

Therefore he has concluded that anyone born before 1950 is more safe from H1N1 than others because they already have an immunity to this type of flu.

That's why he thinks it's not hitting old people as hard as young.

Again it's just one guy studying this so who knows but I just found that interesting.

Makes me a little less scared for my parents.

yep, that's true and exactly what I said smile

Jennie · Guru

Picture-Perfect wrote:

Jennie, just wanted to add our experience, Hannah tested positive for type A influenza last Thursday, They did a rapid test. We got tamiflu because whether seasonal or h1n1 from what I understand they are treating with tamiflu, in my pedi's office they are not sending many out to be confirmation tested any longer because every single one that they have sent out is h1n1 not a case of seasonal flu in there. Now that doesn't mean there are not, especially since they are not doing the confirmation test on every case but I think based on the cost, I heard it's hundreds of dollars, if you test positive for type A they are giving tamiflu, which this has been our first experience with that drug, but I think it really helped Hannah. If it's true how much the confirmation costs i'm ok with the rapid test and not knowing for sure since it is treated the same. She got sick Thursday felt awful Thurs and Friday but was really getting better by Saturday. The baby has also been taking it in hopes that he doesn't get sick, I have to say... tamiflu is EXPENSIVE, maybe not for everyone but with our insurance which I think is generally pretty good it cost me $167.00 just for the tamiflu the amox for baby's ears and the heavy duty cough syrup for Han added another $20, I don't think our pedi would have given us the rx without testing Hannah and if he had I don't think I would have filled it. When I did fill it the pharmacist said he is filling it 40 times a day at least right now :O I was shocked.

Ah.

Seems like everyone I've heard IRL was knocking the fact it wasn't being sent off.

Damnation on the Tamiflu! I had no idea it was so expensive!!!! We've never had a run in with the flu here!

kdrew · Guru

Juanita wrote:

kdrew wrote:

Juanita wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

Juanita wrote:

CoffeeQueen wrote:

another thing I find interesting is that this has only been around for 5 months. If the truth was that this has not had as many deaths as the seasonal type A flu then how can we know? We are not even sure how long this runs? It started in Mexico in what, april? So, I am not sure how that can true in terms of total deaths compared to seasonal.

I am not sure where the data all comes from and like this vaccine, every Dr. has an opinion.

Also, at least in my experience with the flu and in years past with the kids here. The flu has not knocked them out for such long periods as this strain has. That is where I see the difference. I cannot tell you how many kids are better one day, down the next, etc. a week later sick again from secondary issues. It is really hitting the youngs immune system if you ask me. That is where I see it being different in a sense.

I had to come back and add this. I hope you do not think I am some H1N1 freak,lol. I guess I do not think this is some conspiracy theory. I think that there are most likely many factors involved. I guess what troubles me is that with the seaonal flu in years past it has not caused those that have asthma and that to be out over a week. I mean sure the seasonal flu is worse on the elderly, immune compromised. However, so far that is not the case with this strain. That I guess is what makes me go hmmm.

-- Edited by CoffeeQueen on Tuesday 3rd of November 2009 10:12:24 AM

I'm just a tad bit confused with your thinking here, so help me out.

Are you saying that kids with asthma don't usually stay down for a week with the seasonal flu?

And about the elderly..you're wondering why this H1N1 isn't affecting them like it's affecting the young?

In what I have been witnessing. Even those who are not immune compromised are being hit hard (young kids.) Also, yes - I am seeing it have longer then normal effects on those who do have asthma, etc. I know the seasonal flu is deadly, but on a whole here it seems to have been worse then the 10 years I have seen with just seasonal flu. This is just in this months period.

okay, let me explain it to you.

The reason it's hitting the young so hard, and not hitting older adults (and adults my age even) as hard is because the adults have seen it before, some more than others. Young kids haven't seen this strain before so it hits them harder.
ETA: so because kids haven't seen this strain, those that are immune compromised are being hit especially hard and it takes them longer to get over it because they don't have the antibodies to fight it

-- Edited by Juanita on Tuesday 3rd of November 2009 10:36:33 AM
Just an interesting tidbit, and I have no idea if it's true or not, but I was watching a report about a doctor that has been studying H1N1 and he said that the strain is similar, but not ANYWHERE near as bad, as the strain that killed all of those people in the early 1900's.

Therefore he has concluded that anyone born before 1950 is more safe from H1N1 than others because they already have an immunity to this type of flu.

That's why he thinks it's not hitting old people as hard as young.

Again it's just one guy studying this so who knows but I just found that interesting.

Makes me a little less scared for my parents.

yep, that's true and exactly what I said

Oops, didn't read the whole thread. Did you see that report too?