mctex wrote:

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Laura... I don't know.

I'm with Kelly -- spinning in circles.

I've recently come into contact with some pretty intelligent and sane anti-vaccine advocates, and the points against vaccination are actually far more rationally compelling than I would've ever thought.

The FDA and CDC approval boards are all comprised of experts who are all operating on the assumption that "vaccines are good" and "more vaccines are better". There is no one stopping to really ask the over vaccination question.

Additionally, because side effects are truly so hard to discern, it's hard to say if they're truly safe. The pharmaceutical companies are only required to track those side effects that occur within a one week period. A recent study chaired by a Harvard MD (too lazy to link; google if interested) and his ilk determined that there is a statistically higher incidence of MS in people who received the Hep B vaccine (but it's too soon to be calling it dangerous).

However, this higher incidence of MS would not technically qualify as a side effect -- because no one is studying the long term effects of these vaccines.

And it's not just the insurance companies and Medicaid -- it's the whole freaking system that's broken. Research requires money. There's no money in proving a vaccine unsafe. There is money in proving a vaccine safe enough. And that's not conspiracy theory... it's simple economics.

The CDC is not interested in whether or not people get MS later in their life because they vaccinated. The CDC is interested purely in avoiding disease outbreaks. So I don't really value their opinion in determining a healthy way to live.

ALL OF THAT SAID... I don't have the emotional or intellectual bandwidth to stay on top of all of this to the degree that I would want to if I were going to fly in the face of the medical system. Which is why I ultimately decided to give Victoria her 2 yo immunizations, despite having learned all of this.

And I will pray to God that He will understand the decision that I made, and that it wasn't without serious consideration, and act accordingly.

Regarding H1N1... I don't think we're going to go that route. What I've heard is that they're expecting it to peak this week, and we can't even get vaccinations here yet for people over age 2. Victoria has her seasonal flu shot; I'm unsure what I'll do with A next month for her well check. (We're late on that. I'm not taking a well kid into a doctors office right now... NO WAY. LOL!)

But man, do I ever understand your frustration and confusion. And I will say that if the medical community would be forthcoming in admitting more of what they don't know (i.e., long term side effects), they'd go a long way to building trust. Because as long as people are still dying at all, they clearly don't know everything...

 

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Regarding the red-
Couldn't it just be coincidental?

 

mctex wrote:

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Jennie wrote:

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mctex wrote:

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Laura... I don't know.

I'm with Kelly -- spinning in circles.

I've recently come into contact with some pretty intelligent and sane anti-vaccine advocates, and the points against vaccination are actually far more rationally compelling than I would've ever thought.

The FDA and CDC approval boards are all comprised of experts who are all operating on the assumption that "vaccines are good" and "more vaccines are better". There is no one stopping to really ask the over vaccination question.

Additionally, because side effects are truly so hard to discern, it's hard to say if they're truly safe. The pharmaceutical companies are only required to track those side effects that occur within a one week period. A recent study chaired by a Harvard MD (too lazy to link; google if interested) and his ilk determined that there is a statistically higher incidence of MS in people who received the Hep B vaccine (but it's too soon to be calling it dangerous).

However, this higher incidence of MS would not technically qualify as a side effect -- because no one is studying the long term effects of these vaccines.

And it's not just the insurance companies and Medicaid -- it's the whole freaking system that's broken. Research requires money. There's no money in proving a vaccine unsafe. There is money in proving a vaccine safe enough. And that's not conspiracy theory... it's simple economics.

The CDC is not interested in whether or not people get MS later in their life because they vaccinated. The CDC is interested purely in avoiding disease outbreaks. So I don't really value their opinion in determining a healthy way to live.

ALL OF THAT SAID... I don't have the emotional or intellectual bandwidth to stay on top of all of this to the degree that I would want to if I were going to fly in the face of the medical system. Which is why I ultimately decided to give Victoria her 2 yo immunizations, despite having learned all of this.

And I will pray to God that He will understand the decision that I made, and that it wasn't without serious consideration, and act accordingly.

Regarding H1N1... I don't think we're going to go that route. What I've heard is that they're expecting it to peak this week, and we can't even get vaccinations here yet for people over age 2. Victoria has her seasonal flu shot; I'm unsure what I'll do with A next month for her well check. (We're late on that. I'm not taking a well kid into a doctors office right now... NO WAY. LOL!)

But man, do I ever understand your frustration and confusion. And I will say that if the medical community would be forthcoming in admitting more of what they don't know (i.e., long term side effects), they'd go a long way to building trust. Because as long as people are still dying at all, they clearly don't know everything...

 

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Regarding the red-
Couldn't it just be coincidental?

 

 

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You will learn all about what this means in your pre-med statistics courses!

 

ETA: Here's the study. http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/abstract/63/5/838

I don't mean to sound like a jackass, I just don't have time to get into an overview of statistics ATM, which is actually the question that you're asking.

(And you know if I had the time, I totally would. LOL!)

-- Edited by mctex on Friday 23rd of October 2009 09:44:50 AM

 

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Thanks!

I'm going to give it a peek at naptime.

Alison wrote:

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There is also increased risk of autism in boys after receiving the hep B vax shortly after birth. (I don't have the study in front of me, but have seen it referenced several times).

As one researcher has said, giving a 6-pound newborn 1 vaccine is like giving a 180-pound adult 30 vaccines at once. Except with a newborn, there is so much more that can go wrong developmentally.

We worry so much about mercury, with good reason, but many vaccines still contain aluminum, of which there has been no "safe" amount known.

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Funny you bring up the mercury. My friend who is a Dr. just said to me the other day that parents are so up in arms over the mercury. She said most consume more then the allotted amount just in the fish/tuna they eat. Yet pay no attention to the other chemicals. It is all what is in the news.

Juni wrote:

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So, Gavin has croup again and while Doug was there he talked to the doc about getting the vaccine. As soon as we are better we are going to get it. They are doing them each Saturday so tomorrow is out but we're hoping for the next week. He said both boys fall into the priority category for more than just their age - because of their chronic respiratory issues. So, he said get it. I really trust him. He also said that they are seeing that people who have had the H1N1 are not showing enough immunity to not get it again so they are suggesting they still get the vaccine. I wasn't there so I don't have any other info other than that.

So, me and the boys are hopefully going to get it next saturday.

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Hmmm, that's interesting, because just the other day they said the reason this was hitting the young intstead of the elderly so hard is because they've seen something similar years ago.

But, this is a new strain so who knows, lol

 

CoffeeQueen wrote:

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It gets better every day for me. I am now hearing that one shot is most likely good enough, but they are adding the second as a booster for protective measure. Anyone else here this?

We now have teachers dropping. Next week is going to be crappy here.

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 I hadn't heard that.  Kind of makes you wonder though, if one shot's enough, why the booster?

Things that make you go hmmm.

I really hate this not knowing what to do about getting shots for the boys.  I've been looking at my county's health dept website, and I see that there are 4 free clinics being offered next week.  My pregnant friend went yesterday morning to one of the clinics and waited in line for 1.5 hrs to get the H1N1 shot, and 30 mins after she left they ran out of the shot form.  Ugh.

Found this in the FAQ information:
Will two doses of vaccine be required?
At this time ages 10 and older will need one dose for 2009 H1N1 flu vaccine. Children aged 6 months through 9 years will need 2 doses. These guidelines are from the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

What will be the recommended interval between the first and second dose for children 9 years of age and under?
For planning purposes, you should assume 21-28 days between the first and second vaccination.

I was reading this on NPR's site.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112739879&ft=1&f=2101192

It explains the one shot vaccine and that most adults will be covered 97% by it but they are not certain with children or those who have a compromised immune system.

I feel like each day I hear or read something new.

Here's an article that I found interesting and mentions the origional article.

http://www.babble.com/swine-flu-h1n1-vaccine/