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MomSquawk -> Chit Chat -> Do you give "pats on the back" ?
Post Info TOPIC: Do you give "pats on the back" ?
sappy


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RE: Do you give "pats on the back" ?
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happylib wrote:

We do.  I think it's a good thing to do and here is why.  I think that it sets a good example for Elizabeth that whoever her partner is in life, she should be appreciated and respected.  I think it helps resentment from growing in marriages about not being appreciated or recognized as a contributing partner.  I also think it directs the focus to the positive and not the negative.  When I learned to be grateful and appreciative of the little things and expected things in life, it opened up more room for those positive things to enter into my life.  I can not remember what my personality type was.


ditto. totally.

 



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daisy


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Supafly wrote:

Chele, based on the responses here, I think this is largely a personality thing.

Bill doesn't get at all why people need so much praise and appreciation for things that they do (and things they are supposed to be doing in particular-like anything relating to house cleanup), and he doesn't get in the slightest why a woman (or anyone else, for that matter) needs to hear praise for anything and how that would make an impact on their person. As a general rule, due to the way his personality is, he feels like if someone needs constant praise and ego boosting, it is a flaw of theirs.

I do get it completely why people need praise and how much it helps. Even though it doesn't come naturally to me to praise of pretty straightforward things, like picking up after yourself, I do try very hard to praise the kids, and some other people in my life whom I know require it. I don't bother with Bill, obviously, lmao. But while I get the need for it, I don't need much of it for myself-it is just a complete personality thing. I don't feel the exact same that Bill does about it, but I will say that my dad needs near constant praise and words of affirmation, and tbh, I often think of him as weak as a result of that. I know he *isn't*, but it is hard for me not to feel that way when he fishes for compliments all of the time-and I do mean all.of.the.time.  But he is pretty extreme. I definitely could not in a million, bazillion years, be married to someone who needed that. 

Anyway, I think our personalities are largely at play in this...

ETA-I am sure you feel this way too, Chele, but I do want to say also that because Bill and I don't praise each other much about everyday things does not mean we don't appreciate each other and what we do.  We both know that we appreciate each other (we do once in a while discuss this, in case you are wondering how we know, not to mention we are just more non-verbal about most things), we just don't feel the need to say it all that often.  I do think it can be difficult for people (like my dad) who require a lot of praise to understand where we are coming from, but it isn't a negative thing.  It is just different.

-- Edited by Supafly on Monday 7th of September 2009 07:53:04 PM



just to clarify, my DH definitely doesnt NEED praise or affirmation, in the slightest.  i just like to give it anyway.  :dunno



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mctex


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daisy wrote:

 

Supafly wrote:

Chele, based on the responses here, I think this is largely a personality thing.

Bill doesn't get at all why people need so much praise and appreciation for things that they do (and things they are supposed to be doing in particular-like anything relating to house cleanup), and he doesn't get in the slightest why a woman (or anyone else, for that matter) needs to hear praise for anything and how that would make an impact on their person. As a general rule, due to the way his personality is, he feels like if someone needs constant praise and ego boosting, it is a flaw of theirs.

I do get it completely why people need praise and how much it helps. Even though it doesn't come naturally to me to praise of pretty straightforward things, like picking up after yourself, I do try very hard to praise the kids, and some other people in my life whom I know require it. I don't bother with Bill, obviously, lmao. But while I get the need for it, I don't need much of it for myself-it is just a complete personality thing. I don't feel the exact same that Bill does about it, but I will say that my dad needs near constant praise and words of affirmation, and tbh, I often think of him as weak as a result of that. I know he *isn't*, but it is hard for me not to feel that way when he fishes for compliments all of the time-and I do mean all.of.the.time.  But he is pretty extreme. I definitely could not in a million, bazillion years, be married to someone who needed that. 

Anyway, I think our personalities are largely at play in this...

ETA-I am sure you feel this way too, Chele, but I do want to say also that because Bill and I don't praise each other much about everyday things does not mean we don't appreciate each other and what we do.  We both know that we appreciate each other (we do once in a while discuss this, in case you are wondering how we know, not to mention we are just more non-verbal about most things), we just don't feel the need to say it all that often.  I do think it can be difficult for people (like my dad) who require a lot of praise to understand where we are coming from, but it isn't a negative thing.  It is just different.

-- Edited by Supafly on Monday 7th of September 2009 07:53:04 PM



just to clarify, my DH definitely doesnt NEED praise or affirmation, in the slightest.  i just like to give it anyway.  :dunno

 



I think it's interesting how there's a piece of us that feels like it's uncool (let alone weak) to want to feel appreciated.

I mean, I get it -- I most definitely felt like that myself for most of my adult life, up until about a year ago, when I really started thinking about it. (And I know I have blasted people on this very board for feeling like they need validation/to feel appreciated... so yeah, I get it, LOL.) But when a desire for kindness, respect and appreciation is interpreted as weakness, is it any wonder that our society is so fucked up?

Like we're okay thanking the drive through attendant at McDonalds, but not the ones we love the most? Doesn't that seem a little bit backwards? (And I don't mean to suggest that the McD's clerk shouldn't be thanked...)

I feel like this sentiment is extremely common amongst men -- like it's a part of the strong masculine male to aspire to.

And then they have mid-life crises and start banging their secretaries, because they made them feel appreciated. But no, they don't need anything from anyone, TYVM.

WTF.

(DEFINITELY not talking about anyone's DHs here -- NOT AT ALL. Just the stereotype and how it CAN play out and how jacked up that is and why I think men are dum. LOL)

ANYWAY

To the original question -- once upon a time, I would've answered this no. But now I do, regardless of whether or not it's expected/appreciated by the recipient, because I don't like any of the reasons that would prevent me from doing so. (See above, LOL.)

 

 

 



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Supafly


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CoffeeQueen wrote:

Supafly wrote:

 

CheleLyn wrote:

 

Supafly wrote:

Chele, based on the responses here, I think this is largely a personality thing.

Bill doesn't get at all why people need so much praise and appreciation for things that they do (and things they are supposed to be doing in particular-like anything relating to house cleanup), and he doesn't get in the slightest why a woman (or anyone else, for that matter) needs to hear praise for anything and how that would make an impact on their person. As a general rule, due to the way his personality is, he feels like if someone needs constant praise and ego boosting, it is a flaw of theirs.

I do get it completely why people need praise and how much it helps. Even though it doesn't come naturally to me to praise of pretty straightforward things, like picking up after yourself, I do try very hard to praise the kids, and some other people in my life whom I know require it. I don't bother with Bill, obviously, lmao. But while I get the need for it, I don't need much of it for myself-it is just a complete personality thing. I don't feel the exact same that Bill does about it, but I will say that my dad needs near constant praise and words of affirmation, and tbh, I often think of him as weak as a result of that. But he is pretty extreme. I definitely could not in a million, bazillion years, be married to someone who needed that.

Anyway, I think our personalities are largely at play in this...


__________________________________________________

red: that made me lol bc don has often said that sometimes when i'm thanking him or one of the older kids for doing something i think they should do anyway, i sound a little patronizing, and i guess in a way, while even I like the occasional ACKNOWLEDGEMENT that I am appreciated, it make me feel very uncomfortable to receive thanks---especially when it begins to get profuse (even when it's something I've made like a blanket or something, I really like when what i make is liked but it makes me uncomfortable to get too much praise for it, kwim)...even if its cooking or something crazy like vacuuming---which btw is done in a very methodical way so nobody else really likes to even try it, however i have made great strides in TRYING to give thanks when some does vac bc I KNOW they worry about if its done "right"--no vac tracks (crazy i know)

For me personally, I feel more appreciation for what I do when someone just does something without my asking, ya know, taking the initiative---mom's been really busy, I'll run a load of towels or vac, or tidy up the living room or kitchen.

as for actually showing my appreciation for others, it's very hard for me to say it, but i feel like by my contiueally do what i do, it shows i love them. my having a snack ready for the kids when they get home from school or having supper ready when dh gets home from work shows that i understand what he does all day an di appreciate it. And quite honestly, i do sometimes feel how you said Bill feel...like it's a flaw to be in constant need of praise.

does any of that make sense...there's more I could say but someone has asked me 50 million times in the last 2 minutes if I will tuck him in lol



 


OMG Yes, ITTTTTTTTU.  Like you, I feel like it is nice to be acknowledged, but I get very uncomfortable when praise is showered on me.  I tend to go all out for parties and such, and people will gush about things, and I start feeling awkward about it, tbh.  (not really in the internet setting because there is so much lost in the medium, but in person when people go on and on and I am just standing there in the center of everyone's attention, I feel very out of place)  I know some people do that because it is *their* way, but it is not at all mine.  I don't do things like that for the praise, kwim?

And ITTTTTTA about initiative.  Recently on a Friday night when we were over at the farm, my girls were in the TV room playing while I was helping get the pizzas made, and Bill was late, so he wasn't there.  Anyway, when I went back to tell the girls that the pizza was ready, they had already cleaned up on their own!!!  I was soooooo proud of them for cleaning all of the toys without being asked, and knowing they would have to do it at some point anyway.  I definitely gushed on them about that. 

You know, my dad GUSHES on my kids about the most random, silly things.  Like Anna riding a big wheel at the park today-she knows how to ride a big wheel, she has known how to ride a big wheel, riding a big wheel is nothing new or out of the ordinary for her.  But the way my dad was going on and on and on about it, you would have thought she had JUST mastered it today.  Tbh, I was embarassed by it.  It was SO over the top.  But again, he is that way.  I swear, the man will watch you take a bite of something he cooked (and he has ALWAYS been this way-Bill and I have joked about it for years), and as you chomp down for the first time, he will be asking you how it is.  He CRAVES compliments.  I hate it.  It makes being around him for any length of time very irritating for me.

Anyway, ITU.  I show my appreciation in other ways more so than verbally.  Because to me (and for me, when others are doing things for me), those things are more meaningful.

 


I bet Bill would like a few pats on the arse though :)

 



 LMAO-no doubt about that one!!!



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Laura
Supafly


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daisy wrote:

Supafly wrote:

Chele, based on the responses here, I think this is largely a personality thing.

Bill doesn't get at all why people need so much praise and appreciation for things that they do (and things they are supposed to be doing in particular-like anything relating to house cleanup), and he doesn't get in the slightest why a woman (or anyone else, for that matter) needs to hear praise for anything and how that would make an impact on their person. As a general rule, due to the way his personality is, he feels like if someone needs constant praise and ego boosting, it is a flaw of theirs.

I do get it completely why people need praise and how much it helps. Even though it doesn't come naturally to me to praise of pretty straightforward things, like picking up after yourself, I do try very hard to praise the kids, and some other people in my life whom I know require it. I don't bother with Bill, obviously, lmao. But while I get the need for it, I don't need much of it for myself-it is just a complete personality thing. I don't feel the exact same that Bill does about it, but I will say that my dad needs near constant praise and words of affirmation, and tbh, I often think of him as weak as a result of that. I know he *isn't*, but it is hard for me not to feel that way when he fishes for compliments all of the time-and I do mean all.of.the.time.  But he is pretty extreme. I definitely could not in a million, bazillion years, be married to someone who needed that. 

Anyway, I think our personalities are largely at play in this...

ETA-I am sure you feel this way too, Chele, but I do want to say also that because Bill and I don't praise each other much about everyday things does not mean we don't appreciate each other and what we do.  We both know that we appreciate each other (we do once in a while discuss this, in case you are wondering how we know, not to mention we are just more non-verbal about most things), we just don't feel the need to say it all that often.  I do think it can be difficult for people (like my dad) who require a lot of praise to understand where we are coming from, but it isn't a negative thing.  It is just different.

-- Edited by Supafly on Monday 7th of September 2009 07:53:04 PM



just to clarify, my DH definitely doesnt NEED praise or affirmation, in the slightest.  i just like to give it anyway.  :dunno


Oh I am not saying he does at all.  But maybe you give it because it is something that *you* value, kwim?  Neither Bill nor I place high value on this, so it is ok with both of us that we don't give it out much, kwim?  I don't think there is anything wrong with praising people (though like I said, for myself, it can get to be too much sometimes, but that is typically in special circumstances), I just think it is a total personality thing in that you tend to give to others what you want back for yourself, kwim?

 



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Laura
Supafly


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mctex wrote:

daisy wrote:

 

Supafly wrote:

Chele, based on the responses here, I think this is largely a personality thing.

Bill doesn't get at all why people need so much praise and appreciation for things that they do (and things they are supposed to be doing in particular-like anything relating to house cleanup), and he doesn't get in the slightest why a woman (or anyone else, for that matter) needs to hear praise for anything and how that would make an impact on their person. As a general rule, due to the way his personality is, he feels like if someone needs constant praise and ego boosting, it is a flaw of theirs.

I do get it completely why people need praise and how much it helps. Even though it doesn't come naturally to me to praise of pretty straightforward things, like picking up after yourself, I do try very hard to praise the kids, and some other people in my life whom I know require it. I don't bother with Bill, obviously, lmao. But while I get the need for it, I don't need much of it for myself-it is just a complete personality thing. I don't feel the exact same that Bill does about it, but I will say that my dad needs near constant praise and words of affirmation, and tbh, I often think of him as weak as a result of that. I know he *isn't*, but it is hard for me not to feel that way when he fishes for compliments all of the time-and I do mean all.of.the.time.  But he is pretty extreme. I definitely could not in a million, bazillion years, be married to someone who needed that. 

Anyway, I think our personalities are largely at play in this...

ETA-I am sure you feel this way too, Chele, but I do want to say also that because Bill and I don't praise each other much about everyday things does not mean we don't appreciate each other and what we do.  We both know that we appreciate each other (we do once in a while discuss this, in case you are wondering how we know, not to mention we are just more non-verbal about most things), we just don't feel the need to say it all that often.  I do think it can be difficult for people (like my dad) who require a lot of praise to understand where we are coming from, but it isn't a negative thing.  It is just different.

-- Edited by Supafly on Monday 7th of September 2009 07:53:04 PM



just to clarify, my DH definitely doesnt NEED praise or affirmation, in the slightest.  i just like to give it anyway.  :dunno

 



I think it's interesting how there's a piece of us that feels like it's uncool (let alone weak) to want to feel appreciated.

I mean, I get it -- I most definitely felt like that myself for most of my adult life, up until about a year ago, when I really started thinking about it. (And I know I have blasted people on this very board for feeling like they need validation/to feel appreciated... so yeah, I get it, LOL.) But when a desire for kindness, respect and appreciation is interpreted as weakness, is it any wonder that our society is so fucked up?

Like we're okay thanking the drive through attendant at McDonalds, but not the ones we love the most? Doesn't that seem a little bit backwards? (And I don't mean to suggest that the McD's clerk shouldn't be thanked...)

I feel like this sentiment is extremely common amongst men -- like it's a part of the strong masculine male to aspire to.

And then they have mid-life crises and start banging their secretaries, because they made them feel appreciated. But no, they don't need anything from anyone, TYVM.

WTF.

(DEFINITELY not talking about anyone's DHs here -- NOT AT ALL. Just the stereotype and how it CAN play out and how jacked up that is and why I think men are dum. LOL)

ANYWAY

To the original question -- once upon a time, I would've answered this no. But now I do, regardless of whether or not it's expected/appreciated by the recipient, because I don't like any of the reasons that would prevent me from doing so. (See above, LOL.)

 

 

 


I have to go to acupuncture, but I'd like to address this-I'll come back to it later...

 



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Laura
Juanita


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I do, and I think it's just common courtesy and respect for the other person.

Sure it's their job, and they do help contribute to the mess, but why not thank them?  I love getting thank you's and praises for the things that are considered my "job", so why wouldn't they?

I feel that, like others, if I show respect to Kenneth for the little things, my girls see that and learn from that and that can only be positive, IMO.  They need to learn that they are respected and appreciated even when they do things that are expected of them, and if their parents can show them that, what better examples are there?

-- Edited by Juanita on Tuesday 8th of September 2009 08:57:51 AM

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Michele


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Yes I do. 

I don't expect that my husband will do the dishes and laundry every day but he does.  At the end of the day I always tell him thank you and give him a hug.  And he does the same for me with all the rest of the household things.  I believe that telling someone you appreciate their help no matter how big or small goes a long way.   People like to be recognized for what they do in all aspects of life, even things they are expected to do every day.   In my family I have found that by doing this people do more for each other - maybe we are just a bunch of people pleasers LOL!

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3s_a_crowd


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I dont have a tendancy to thank people for what they are supposed to do, however I notice that when I do it gets done more often or in a more timely manner or just gets done better. So because of that Ive tried to make more of an effort to thank people for what they do.

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Juanita


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Michele wrote:

Yes I do. 

I don't expect that my husband will do the dishes and laundry every day but he does.  At the end of the day I always tell him thank you and give him a hug.  And he does the same for me with all the rest of the household things.  I believe that telling someone you appreciate their help no matter how big or small goes a long way.   People like to be recognized for what they do in all aspects of life, even things they are expected to do every day.   In my family I have found that by doing this people do more for each other - maybe we are just a bunch of people pleasers LOL!


LOL.  I think it all comes back to the "Do unto others" thing.  I agree that the more you show appreciation, the more people do for you.  I've seen it firsthand in my own household.

 



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Supafly


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mctex wrote:

 

daisy wrote:

 

Supafly wrote:

Chele, based on the responses here, I think this is largely a personality thing.

Bill doesn't get at all why people need so much praise and appreciation for things that they do (and things they are supposed to be doing in particular-like anything relating to house cleanup), and he doesn't get in the slightest why a woman (or anyone else, for that matter) needs to hear praise for anything and how that would make an impact on their person. As a general rule, due to the way his personality is, he feels like if someone needs constant praise and ego boosting, it is a flaw of theirs.

I do get it completely why people need praise and how much it helps. Even though it doesn't come naturally to me to praise of pretty straightforward things, like picking up after yourself, I do try very hard to praise the kids, and some other people in my life whom I know require it. I don't bother with Bill, obviously, lmao. But while I get the need for it, I don't need much of it for myself-it is just a complete personality thing. I don't feel the exact same that Bill does about it, but I will say that my dad needs near constant praise and words of affirmation, and tbh, I often think of him as weak as a result of that. I know he *isn't*, but it is hard for me not to feel that way when he fishes for compliments all of the time-and I do mean all.of.the.time.  But he is pretty extreme. I definitely could not in a million, bazillion years, be married to someone who needed that. 

Anyway, I think our personalities are largely at play in this...

ETA-I am sure you feel this way too, Chele, but I do want to say also that because Bill and I don't praise each other much about everyday things does not mean we don't appreciate each other and what we do.  We both know that we appreciate each other (we do once in a while discuss this, in case you are wondering how we know, not to mention we are just more non-verbal about most things), we just don't feel the need to say it all that often.  I do think it can be difficult for people (like my dad) who require a lot of praise to understand where we are coming from, but it isn't a negative thing.  It is just different.

-- Edited by Supafly on Monday 7th of September 2009 07:53:04 PM



just to clarify, my DH definitely doesnt NEED praise or affirmation, in the slightest.  i just like to give it anyway.  :dunno

 



I think it's interesting how there's a piece of us that feels like it's uncool (let alone weak) to want to feel appreciated.

I mean, I get it -- I most definitely felt like that myself for most of my adult life, up until about a year ago, when I really started thinking about it. (And I know I have blasted people on this very board for feeling like they need validation/to feel appreciated... so yeah, I get it, LOL.) But when a desire for kindness, respect and appreciation is interpreted as weakness, is it any wonder that our society is so fucked up?

Like we're okay thanking the drive through attendant at McDonalds, but not the ones we love the most? Doesn't that seem a little bit backwards? (And I don't mean to suggest that the McD's clerk shouldn't be thanked...)

I feel like this sentiment is extremely common amongst men -- like it's a part of the strong masculine male to aspire to.

And then they have mid-life crises and start banging their secretaries, because they made them feel appreciated. But no, they don't need anything from anyone, TYVM.

WTF.

(DEFINITELY not talking about anyone's DHs here -- NOT AT ALL. Just the stereotype and how it CAN play out and how jacked up that is and why I think men are dum. LOL)

ANYWAY

To the original question -- once upon a time, I would've answered this no. But now I do, regardless of whether or not it's expected/appreciated by the recipient, because I don't like any of the reasons that would prevent me from doing so. (See above, LOL.)

 

 

 



 Ok.  I'm back from acupucture and finding me zen, lmao.

Since I was the one who introduced the "weakness" terminology into the thread, I'd like to comment on the whole thing. 

When I used the term weak, I was referring specifically to my father.  And I also made sure to say that I do not feel the same way that Bill does about other people's need to be verbally appreciated.  My feeling that father is weak is specific to him.  And like I said, he is extreme.  Not knowing my dad, I realize that other people don't know what I mean by that, but the way he goes on and on and on and GUSHES about every little tiny thing my children do (or my brother's kids, or my mom, or whoever) is what he not only wants for himself but NEEDS.  And I get that some people need more verbal affirmation, but I also know from knowing him and his history that his need for it is very largely driven by his own past and not getting from his father what he needed, especially given his personality.  Maybe my grandfather was more like Bill and I are, but unlike Bill and I, was unable or unwilling to give that verbal affirmation to his child. (I obviously wasn't there, and have heard a few conflicting reports, so I know how my grandfathermade my dad *feel*, but I am not sure exactly what he *did* or didnt do, as the case may be)  Just like I haven't quite tackled all of my issues with my dad, he hasn't either.  Only he has taken a different path and decided he is over it and that if he just lives his life like none of that matters, then it won't.  Anyway, my point is, for MY DAD, I do see it as a weakness-because in his case, it isn't *just* his personality, it is his broken spirit, and his denial of that, as well.  And I have tried many many times to just offer him what he needs despite the fact that doing so makes my stomach churn (again-that is a specific thing to *him* and I do not feel that way with other people), but it causes this rippling thing where somehow my praise of my dad makes him feel that he is justified in telling me what to do and how to live my life, and it is just not good.  Now I do give him compliments, but no where near the level that I know he needs to feel fulfilled.

Anyway, this was a long winded way of me saying that I did not say, and do not feel that having a "desire for kindness, respect and appreciation is interpreted as weakness." 

And I also want to say that tbh, the statement you made above makes it sound as if verbal affirmation/praise is required to show others kindness, respect and appreciation, when that is clearly not the case at all.  That would be like saying that because Bill and I don't verbally affirm each other all that often, that we are not kind to each other, and have no respect or appreciation for one other.  So obviously not the case.  Some people do not need much verbal affirmation.  Some people truly don't feel comfortable with what others might feel is a normal level of verbal affirmation.  And I can tell you that while Bill (and his whole family, really) does have macho tendencies, it is truly his personality to not need much praise.  When I tell him that I think he did a good job on the retaining wall out front (which I did tell him, because he did do a good job), he says, "Thanks-it did turn out well." and moves on with whatever he was doing.  When I give him a back rub, carve out a few hours to spend just with him, or yes, have sex with him, he feels loved and appreciated.  THOSE things matter to him.  Back to the retaining wall-my dad would be inviting the entire neighborhood over to see his wall SPECIFICALLY so that they could praise the fantastic job he did.  However, when my neighbor (who is definitely a words of affirmation person) came over yesterday and started going on a bit about how great it looked, Bill looked visibly uncomfortable.  The first "Wow Bill, that looks great!" was more than enough for him.  It isn't him being macho-it is his personality.  And tbh, why in world would I, to the person who means most to me in the world, go on and on about every little thing he does when I *know* that those kinds of things make him uncomfortable?  Does that show him more kindness, respect and appreciation, or does that just tell him that I don't know him at all, and thus just speak a completely different language to him?  Or am I supposed to make him feel uncomfortable (and myself as well, in the process) because it sets a better example for my kids? 

Don't get me wrong-both Bill and I know how to praise people, and while it is particularly hard for him to do sometimes, we both do it.  Not to the same degree as I am sure words of affirmation types do, but enough.  But IMO, the people who you love the most are the people you should know the best.  And as such, you should know whether or not those words are necessary or even appreciated.  I know Anna needs to be verbally affirmed, and I have no trouble giving that to her, but again, that is on the bottom of the list for Bill.  I don't think it would be very loving of me at.all. to shower him with praise that would end up putting him off. 



-- Edited by Supafly on Tuesday 8th of September 2009 01:01:09 PM

-- Edited by Supafly on Tuesday 8th of September 2009 01:42:24 PM

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Laura
mctex


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Supafly wrote:

 

mctex wrote:


I think it's interesting how there's a piece of us that feels like it's uncool (let alone weak) to want to feel appreciated.

I mean, I get it -- I most definitely felt like that myself for most of my adult life, up until about a year ago, when I really started thinking about it. (And I know I have blasted people on this very board for feeling like they need validation/to feel appreciated... so yeah, I get it, LOL.) But when a desire for kindness, respect and appreciation is interpreted as weakness, is it any wonder that our society is so fucked up?

Like we're okay thanking the drive through attendant at McDonalds, but not the ones we love the most? Doesn't that seem a little bit backwards? (And I don't mean to suggest that the McD's clerk shouldn't be thanked...)

I feel like this sentiment is extremely common amongst men -- like it's a part of the strong masculine male to aspire to.

And then they have mid-life crises and start banging their secretaries, because they made them feel appreciated. But no, they don't need anything from anyone, TYVM.

WTF.

(DEFINITELY not talking about anyone's DHs here -- NOT AT ALL. Just the stereotype and how it CAN play out and how jacked up that is and why I think men are dum. LOL)

ANYWAY

To the original question -- once upon a time, I would've answered this no. But now I do, regardless of whether or not it's expected/appreciated by the recipient, because I don't like any of the reasons that would prevent me from doing so. (See above, LOL.)

 

 

 



Ok.  I'm back from acupucture and finding me zen, lmao.

Since I was the one who introduced the "weakness" terminology into the thread, I'd like to comment on the whole thing. 

When I used the term weak, I was referring specifically to my father.  And I also made sure to say that I do not feel the same way that Bill does about other people's need to be verbally appreciated.  My feeling that father is weak is specific to him.  And like I said, he is extreme.  Not knowing my dad, I realize that other people don't know what I mean by that, but the way he goes on and on and on and GUSHES about every little tiny thing my children do (or my brother's kids, or my mom, or whoever) is what he not only wants for himself but NEEDS.  And I get that some people need more verbal affirmation, but I also know from knowing him and his history that his need for it is very largely driven by his own past and not getting from his father what he needed, especially given his personality.  Maybe my grandfather was more like Bill and I are, but unlike Bill and I, was unable or unwilling to give that verbal affirmation to his child. (I obviously wasn't there, and have heard a few conflicting reports, so I know how my grandfathermade my dad *feel*, but I am not sure exactly what he *did* or didnt do, as the case may be)  Just like I haven't quite tackled all of my issues with my dad, he hasn't either.  Only he has taken a different path and decided he is over it and that if he just lives his life like none of that matters, then it won't.  Anyway, my point is, for MY DAD, I do see it as a weakness-because in his case, it isn't *just* his personality, it is his broken spirit, and his denial of that, as well.  And I have tried many many times to just offer him what he needs despite the fact that doing so makes my stomach churn (again-that is a specific thing to *him* and I do not feel that way with other people), but it causes this rippling thing where somehow my praise of my dad makes him feel that he is justified in telling me what to do and how to live my life, and it is just not good.  Now I do give him compliments, but no where near the level that I know he needs to feel fulfilled.

Anyway, this was a long winded way of me saying that I did not say, and do not feel that having a "desire for kindness, respect and appreciation is interpreted as weakness." 

And I also want to say that tbh, the statement you made above makes it sound as if verbal affirmation/praise is required to show others kindness, respect and appreciation, when that is clearly not the case at all. That would be like saying that because Bill and I don't verbally affirm each other all that often, that we are not kind to each other, and have no respect or appreciation for one other. So obviously not the case.  Some people do not need much verbal affirmation. Some people truly don't feel comfortable with what others might feel is a normal level of verbal affirmation.  And I can tell you that while Bill (and his whole family, really) does have macho tendencies, it is truly his personality to not need much praise.  When I tell him that I think he did a good job on the retaining wall out front (which I did tell him, because he did do a good job), he says, "Thanks-it did turn out well." and moves on with whatever he was doing.  When I give him a back rub, carve out a few hours to spend just with him, or yes, have sex with him, he feels loved and appreciated.  THOSE things matter to him.  Back to the retaining wall-my dad would be inviting the entire neighborhood over to see his wall SPECIFICALLY so that they could praise the fantastic job he did.  However, when my neighbor (who is definitely a words of affirmation person) came over yesterday and started going on a bit about how great it looked, Bill looked visibly uncomfortable.  The first "Wow Bill, that looks great!" was more than enough for him.  It isn't him being macho-it is his personality.  And tbh, why in world would I, to the person who means most to me in the world, go on and on about every little thing he does when I *know* that those kinds of things make him uncomfortable?  Does that show him more kindness, respect and appreciation, or does that just tell him that I don't know him at all, and thus just speak a completely different language to him?  Or am I supposed to make him feel uncomfortable (and myself as well, in the process) because it sets a better example for my kids? 

Don't get me wrong-both Bill and I know how to praise people, and while it is particularly hard for him to do sometimes, we both do it.  Not to the same degree as I am sure words of affirmation types do, but enough.  But IMO, the people who you love the most are the people you should know the best.  And as such, you should know whether or not those words are necessary or even appreciated. I know Anna needs to be verbally affirmed, and I have no trouble giving that to her, but again, that is on the bottom of the list for Bill.  I don't think it would be very loving of me at.all. to shower him with praise that would end up putting him off.



-- Edited by Supafly on Tuesday 8th of September 2009 01:01:09 PM

-- Edited by Supafly on Tuesday 8th of September 2009 01:42:24 PM

 


Regarding the situation with your dad, I totally get what you're saying, and that all makes sense.

Regarding the green, if that's what I said, it certainly isn't what I meant. There's a distinct difference between saying, "that isn't what makes me feel good personally", or "this just isn't what we like or do", and "I think that's ridiculous (i.e., for the weak)." I was talking about the latter. There are plenty of people who are the former (including myself); I would argue that just because someone doesn't get off on it personally doesn't mean they also need to hold contempt for those who do. I know that once upon a time, I had that inclination... and then realized that was more about my own baggage and hangups than anything else.

It's like when someone wishes an atheist a Merry Christmas -- I've never understood the contempt there. While the atheist might not give two shits about the holiday, I think the animosity towards someone merely wishing them well (albeit in a different "language") is suspect of the atheist's baggage more than anything else.

Regarding the red, I'm of a different point of view here. Myself, I'm not comfortable adopting that paradigm because it seems like it would be easy for me to become complacent and start taking things for granted, and in my own life experience, sometimes the people to whom we are closest can be the most challenging to effectively communicate with (particularly in the presence of growth or change) because we bring so much history and a shorthand with us to every new communication. I'm pretty freaking intense, though. rofl.gif


 



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mctex


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Supafly wrote:

 

mctex wrote:

 

daisy wrote:

 

Supafly wrote:

Chele, based on the responses here, I think this is largely a personality thing.

Bill doesn't get at all why people need so much praise and appreciation for things that they do (and things they are supposed to be doing in particular-like anything relating to house cleanup), and he doesn't get in the slightest why a woman (or anyone else, for that matter) needs to hear praise for anything and how that would make an impact on their person. As a general rule, due to the way his personality is, he feels like if someone needs constant praise and ego boosting, it is a flaw of theirs.

I do get it completely why people need praise and how much it helps. Even though it doesn't come naturally to me to praise of pretty straightforward things, like picking up after yourself, I do try very hard to praise the kids, and some other people in my life whom I know require it. I don't bother with Bill, obviously, lmao. But while I get the need for it, I don't need much of it for myself-it is just a complete personality thing. I don't feel the exact same that Bill does about it, but I will say that my dad needs near constant praise and words of affirmation, and tbh, I often think of him as weak as a result of that. I know he *isn't*, but it is hard for me not to feel that way when he fishes for compliments all of the time-and I do mean all.of.the.time.  But he is pretty extreme. I definitely could not in a million, bazillion years, be married to someone who needed that. 

Anyway, I think our personalities are largely at play in this...

ETA-I am sure you feel this way too, Chele, but I do want to say also that because Bill and I don't praise each other much about everyday things does not mean we don't appreciate each other and what we do.  We both know that we appreciate each other (we do once in a while discuss this, in case you are wondering how we know, not to mention we are just more non-verbal about most things), we just don't feel the need to say it all that often.  I do think it can be difficult for people (like my dad) who require a lot of praise to understand where we are coming from, but it isn't a negative thing.  It is just different.

-- Edited by Supafly on Monday 7th of September 2009 07:53:04 PM



just to clarify, my DH definitely doesnt NEED praise or affirmation, in the slightest.  i just like to give it anyway.  :dunno

 



I think it's interesting how there's a piece of us that feels like it's uncool (let alone weak) to want to feel appreciated.

I mean, I get it -- I most definitely felt like that myself for most of my adult life, up until about a year ago, when I really started thinking about it. (And I know I have blasted people on this very board for feeling like they need validation/to feel appreciated... so yeah, I get it, LOL.) But when a desire for kindness, respect and appreciation is interpreted as weakness, is it any wonder that our society is so fucked up?

Like we're okay thanking the drive through attendant at McDonalds, but not the ones we love the most? Doesn't that seem a little bit backwards? (And I don't mean to suggest that the McD's clerk shouldn't be thanked...)

I feel like this sentiment is extremely common amongst men -- like it's a part of the strong masculine male to aspire to.

And then they have mid-life crises and start banging their secretaries, because they made them feel appreciated. But no, they don't need anything from anyone, TYVM.

WTF.

(DEFINITELY not talking about anyone's DHs here -- NOT AT ALL. Just the stereotype and how it CAN play out and how jacked up that is and why I think men are dum. LOL)

ANYWAY

To the original question -- once upon a time, I would've answered this no. But now I do, regardless of whether or not it's expected/appreciated by the recipient, because I don't like any of the reasons that would prevent me from doing so. (See above, LOL.)

 

 

 



Ok.  I'm back from acupucture and finding me zen, lmao.

Since I was the one who introduced the "weakness" terminology into the thread, I'd like to comment on the whole thing. 

When I used the term weak, I was referring specifically to my father.  And I also made sure to say that I do not feel the same way that Bill does about other people's need to be verbally appreciated.  My feeling that father is weak is specific to him.  And like I said, he is extreme.  Not knowing my dad, I realize that other people don't know what I mean by that, but the way he goes on and on and on and GUSHES about every little tiny thing my children do (or my brother's kids, or my mom, or whoever) is what he not only wants for himself but NEEDS.  And I get that some people need more verbal affirmation, but I also know from knowing him and his history that his need for it is very largely driven by his own past and not getting from his father what he needed, especially given his personality.  Maybe my grandfather was more like Bill and I are, but unlike Bill and I, was unable or unwilling to give that verbal affirmation to his child. (I obviously wasn't there, and have heard a few conflicting reports, so I know how my grandfathermade my dad *feel*, but I am not sure exactly what he *did* or didnt do, as the case may be)  Just like I haven't quite tackled all of my issues with my dad, he hasn't either.  Only he has taken a different path and decided he is over it and that if he just lives his life like none of that matters, then it won't.  Anyway, my point is, for MY DAD, I do see it as a weakness-because in his case, it isn't *just* his personality, it is his broken spirit, and his denial of that, as well.  And I have tried many many times to just offer him what he needs despite the fact that doing so makes my stomach churn (again-that is a specific thing to *him* and I do not feel that way with other people), but it causes this rippling thing where somehow my praise of my dad makes him feel that he is justified in telling me what to do and how to live my life, and it is just not good.  Now I do give him compliments, but no where near the level that I know he needs to feel fulfilled.

Anyway, this was a long winded way of me saying that I did not say, and do not feel that having a "desire for kindness, respect and appreciation is interpreted as weakness." 

And I also want to say that tbh, the statement you made above makes it sound as if verbal affirmation/praise is required to show others kindness, respect and appreciation, when that is clearly not the case at all.  That would be like saying that because Bill and I don't verbally affirm each other all that often, that we are not kind to each other, and have no respect or appreciation for one other.  So obviously not the case.  Some people do not need much verbal affirmation.  Some people truly don't feel comfortable with what others might feel is a normal level of verbal affirmation.  And I can tell you that while Bill (and his whole family, really) does have macho tendencies, it is truly his personality to not need much praise.  When I tell him that I think he did a good job on the retaining wall out front (which I did tell him, because he did do a good job), he says, "Thanks-it did turn out well." and moves on with whatever he was doing.  When I give him a back rub, carve out a few hours to spend just with him, or yes, have sex with him, he feels loved and appreciated.  THOSE things matter to him.  Back to the retaining wall-my dad would be inviting the entire neighborhood over to see his wall SPECIFICALLY so that they could praise the fantastic job he did.  However, when my neighbor (who is definitely a words of affirmation person) came over yesterday and started going on a bit about how great it looked, Bill looked visibly uncomfortable.  The first "Wow Bill, that looks great!" was more than enough for him.  It isn't him being macho-it is his personality.  And tbh, why in world would I, to the person who means most to me in the world, go on and on about every little thing he does when I *know* that those kinds of things make him uncomfortable?  Does that show him more kindness, respect and appreciation, or does that just tell him that I don't know him at all, and thus just speak a completely different language to him?  Or am I supposed to make him feel uncomfortable (and myself as well, in the process) because it sets a better example for my kids? 

Don't get me wrong-both Bill and I know how to praise people, and while it is particularly hard for him to do sometimes, we both do it.  Not to the same degree as I am sure words of affirmation types do, but enough.  But IMO, the people who you love the most are the people you should know the best.  And as such, you should know whether or not those words are necessary or even appreciated.  I know Anna needs to be verbally affirmed, and I have no trouble giving that to her, but again, that is on the bottom of the list for Bill.  I don't think it would be very loving of me at.all. to shower him with praise that would end up putting him off.



-- Edited by Supafly on Tuesday 8th of September 2009 01:01:09 PM

-- Edited by Supafly on Tuesday 8th of September 2009 01:42:24 PM

 



Oh, 1mt... I want to be sure that you understand that my initial response wasn't really directed or even inspired by your situation/circumstances at all.

If anything, it was Kelly (sorry to call you into the spotlight, K), because I thought it was funny that she had posted the disclaimer...

>>just to clarify, my DH definitely doesnt NEED praise or affirmation, in the slightest.  i just like to give it anyway.  :dunno<<

When she'd already said this...

>>sometimes when dh puts out the garbage and i say thanks, he does look at me like i have 3 heads, or says "why the hell are you thanking me" - and i'll just say "bc i appreciate it."<<

I didn't know if it was that she was hypersensitive to the idea that someone might think her husband was a sissy or something (LOL!). And while I am NOT saying that I think that's why she responded the way she did (DEFINITELY not trying to put words into anyone's mouth), if she DID respond that way because that WAS how she was feeling, frankly, I don't think that would be that unusual or unique. It's something I would've done myself at one time (and may again someday depending on how the winds are blowing through my brain, who knows), because of my paradigm that needing affirmation equaled weakness. (Something I still struggle with, but at least I can name the battle that I'm fighting.)

Yeah, this really is all about me, even if it's not sounding like it. (I hate the new :rofl guy, BTW. Someone should fix that.)



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Supafly


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mctex wrote:

Supafly wrote:

 

mctex wrote:


I think it's interesting how there's a piece of us that feels like it's uncool (let alone weak) to want to feel appreciated.

I mean, I get it -- I most definitely felt like that myself for most of my adult life, up until about a year ago, when I really started thinking about it. (And I know I have blasted people on this very board for feeling like they need validation/to feel appreciated... so yeah, I get it, LOL.) But when a desire for kindness, respect and appreciation is interpreted as weakness, is it any wonder that our society is so fucked up?

Like we're okay thanking the drive through attendant at McDonalds, but not the ones we love the most? Doesn't that seem a little bit backwards? (And I don't mean to suggest that the McD's clerk shouldn't be thanked...)

I feel like this sentiment is extremely common amongst men -- like it's a part of the strong masculine male to aspire to.

And then they have mid-life crises and start banging their secretaries, because they made them feel appreciated. But no, they don't need anything from anyone, TYVM.

WTF.

(DEFINITELY not talking about anyone's DHs here -- NOT AT ALL. Just the stereotype and how it CAN play out and how jacked up that is and why I think men are dum. LOL)

ANYWAY

To the original question -- once upon a time, I would've answered this no. But now I do, regardless of whether or not it's expected/appreciated by the recipient, because I don't like any of the reasons that would prevent me from doing so. (See above, LOL.)

 

 

 



Ok.  I'm back from acupucture and finding me zen, lmao.

Since I was the one who introduced the "weakness" terminology into the thread, I'd like to comment on the whole thing. 

When I used the term weak, I was referring specifically to my father.  And I also made sure to say that I do not feel the same way that Bill does about other people's need to be verbally appreciated.  My feeling that father is weak is specific to him.  And like I said, he is extreme.  Not knowing my dad, I realize that other people don't know what I mean by that, but the way he goes on and on and on and GUSHES about every little tiny thing my children do (or my brother's kids, or my mom, or whoever) is what he not only wants for himself but NEEDS.  And I get that some people need more verbal affirmation, but I also know from knowing him and his history that his need for it is very largely driven by his own past and not getting from his father what he needed, especially given his personality.  Maybe my grandfather was more like Bill and I are, but unlike Bill and I, was unable or unwilling to give that verbal affirmation to his child. (I obviously wasn't there, and have heard a few conflicting reports, so I know how my grandfathermade my dad *feel*, but I am not sure exactly what he *did* or didnt do, as the case may be)  Just like I haven't quite tackled all of my issues with my dad, he hasn't either.  Only he has taken a different path and decided he is over it and that if he just lives his life like none of that matters, then it won't.  Anyway, my point is, for MY DAD, I do see it as a weakness-because in his case, it isn't *just* his personality, it is his broken spirit, and his denial of that, as well.  And I have tried many many times to just offer him what he needs despite the fact that doing so makes my stomach churn (again-that is a specific thing to *him* and I do not feel that way with other people), but it causes this rippling thing where somehow my praise of my dad makes him feel that he is justified in telling me what to do and how to live my life, and it is just not good.  Now I do give him compliments, but no where near the level that I know he needs to feel fulfilled.

Anyway, this was a long winded way of me saying that I did not say, and do not feel that having a "desire for kindness, respect and appreciation is interpreted as weakness." 

And I also want to say that tbh, the statement you made above makes it sound as if verbal affirmation/praise is required to show others kindness, respect and appreciation, when that is clearly not the case at all. That would be like saying that because Bill and I don't verbally affirm each other all that often, that we are not kind to each other, and have no respect or appreciation for one other. So obviously not the case.  Some people do not need much verbal affirmation. Some people truly don't feel comfortable with what others might feel is a normal level of verbal affirmation.  And I can tell you that while Bill (and his whole family, really) does have macho tendencies, it is truly his personality to not need much praise.  When I tell him that I think he did a good job on the retaining wall out front (which I did tell him, because he did do a good job), he says, "Thanks-it did turn out well." and moves on with whatever he was doing.  When I give him a back rub, carve out a few hours to spend just with him, or yes, have sex with him, he feels loved and appreciated.  THOSE things matter to him.  Back to the retaining wall-my dad would be inviting the entire neighborhood over to see his wall SPECIFICALLY so that they could praise the fantastic job he did.  However, when my neighbor (who is definitely a words of affirmation person) came over yesterday and started going on a bit about how great it looked, Bill looked visibly uncomfortable.  The first "Wow Bill, that looks great!" was more than enough for him.  It isn't him being macho-it is his personality.  And tbh, why in world would I, to the person who means most to me in the world, go on and on about every little thing he does when I *know* that those kinds of things make him uncomfortable?  Does that show him more kindness, respect and appreciation, or does that just tell him that I don't know him at all, and thus just speak a completely different language to him?  Or am I supposed to make him feel uncomfortable (and myself as well, in the process) because it sets a better example for my kids? 

Don't get me wrong-both Bill and I know how to praise people, and while it is particularly hard for him to do sometimes, we both do it.  Not to the same degree as I am sure words of affirmation types do, but enough.  But IMO, the people who you love the most are the people you should know the best.  And as such, you should know whether or not those words are necessary or even appreciated. I know Anna needs to be verbally affirmed, and I have no trouble giving that to her, but again, that is on the bottom of the list for Bill.  I don't think it would be very loving of me at.all. to shower him with praise that would end up putting him off.



-- Edited by Supafly on Tuesday 8th of September 2009 01:01:09 PM

-- Edited by Supafly on Tuesday 8th of September 2009 01:42:24 PM

 


Regarding the situation with your dad, I totally get what you're saying, and that all makes sense.

Regarding the green, if that's what I said, it certainly isn't what I meant. There's a distinct difference between saying, "that isn't what makes me feel good personally", or "this just isn't what we like or do", and "I think that's ridiculous (i.e., for the weak)." I was talking about the latter. There are plenty of people who are the former (including myself); I would argue that just because someone doesn't get off on it personally doesn't mean they also need to hold contempt for those who do. I know that once upon a time, I had that inclination... and then realized that was more about my own baggage and hangups than anything else.

It's like when someone wishes an atheist a Merry Christmas -- I've never understood the contempt there. While the atheist might not give two shits about the holiday, I think the animosity towards someone merely wishing them well (albeit in a different "language") is suspect of the atheist's baggage more than anything else.

Regarding the red, I'm of a different point of view here. Myself, I'm not comfortable adopting that paradigm because it seems like it would be easy for me to become complacent and start taking things for granted, and in my own life experience, sometimes the people to whom we are closest can be the most challenging to effectively communicate with (particularly in the presence of growth or change) because we bring so much history and a shorthand with us to every new communication. I'm pretty freaking intense, though. rofl.gif


 


ITA with you, re:green.  I know that has been the case for me personally.  IDT it is with Bill, however, though he doesn't hold people in contempt for needing praise, he just thinks it is a fact (it *is* a fact to him, as nothing has ever proven it to be otherwise in his scientific brain) that people who need what he would clasify as excessive amounts of praise have that as a character flaw.  He is not emotional about it in anyway-if you talk to him about it, he truly sees it as factual information.  Yeah, not sure he would do well with a lot of women.  Maybe I have finally figured out why he only had one (brief) relationship prior to me, lmao.

Re:red-that is facinating to me since I am so the opposite.  When I "do unto others" and don't take the time and make the effort to speak *their* language, I get lazy and complacent in my treatment of them.  In order for me to have meaningful relationships with others, it is crucial that I tap into their needs and speak to those.  And it keeps me on my toes more also because I know that in our 9 years of marriage, Bill's needs have changed some, and I have had to learn to speak to his new needs (he isn't as good at keeping up, lmao.  I have tried subtle, but found it is far better to clearly lay things out with him.).  IDK.  But while I suck at communicating with my father, I (not to toot my own horn here) am very good at communicating with most of the people with whom I am closest.  Bill, in particular of course, but really most everyone in my immediate circle.  Not to say I am a perfect communicator by any stretch, of course.  And again, the exception lies with my father.  I have hope, but at this point, my communication with him is fairly minimal, by my own hand.  I talk to him, but I don't "communicate" much with him, iykwim.  Anyway, it is so interesting to me how different we all are!

Oh, and ok-since I was the one who mentioned the whole weakness thing as it pertains to me and my dad, I wanted to make sure it was known that I do not equate the need for verbal affirmation with weakness.  I don't really "get" the need per se, but I try really hard to, and I try to offer what I can to those I care about, when I know it is something they need. 

And really, I think we all need some verbal affirmation-if I got none and Bill got none, I am sure we would notice that and not like it.  We aren't closed off or unfeeling people.  We just put MORE weight in other things that show appreciation.  Different strokes for different folks, I guess.  I know I don't think Bill is a sissy because he can't watch SYTYCD without me sitting next to him and giving him and the show my undivided attention, lol! (and did I mention he had tears after the breast cancer dance that Melissa and Ade did?  Oh yes-tears!  from BILL!!)

Oh, and finally, I am TTTTTTTTTOTALLY with you on the rofl guy.

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mctex


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Supafly wrote:

 

mctex wrote:

 

Supafly wrote:

 

mctex wrote:


I think it's interesting how there's a piece of us that feels like it's uncool (let alone weak) to want to feel appreciated.

I mean, I get it -- I most definitely felt like that myself for most of my adult life, up until about a year ago, when I really started thinking about it. (And I know I have blasted people on this very board for feeling like they need validation/to feel appreciated... so yeah, I get it, LOL.) But when a desire for kindness, respect and appreciation is interpreted as weakness, is it any wonder that our society is so fucked up?

Like we're okay thanking the drive through attendant at McDonalds, but not the ones we love the most? Doesn't that seem a little bit backwards? (And I don't mean to suggest that the McD's clerk shouldn't be thanked...)

I feel like this sentiment is extremely common amongst men -- like it's a part of the strong masculine male to aspire to.

And then they have mid-life crises and start banging their secretaries, because they made them feel appreciated. But no, they don't need anything from anyone, TYVM.

WTF.

(DEFINITELY not talking about anyone's DHs here -- NOT AT ALL. Just the stereotype and how it CAN play out and how jacked up that is and why I think men are dum. LOL)

ANYWAY

To the original question -- once upon a time, I would've answered this no. But now I do, regardless of whether or not it's expected/appreciated by the recipient, because I don't like any of the reasons that would prevent me from doing so. (See above, LOL.)

 

 

 



Ok.  I'm back from acupucture and finding me zen, lmao.

Since I was the one who introduced the "weakness" terminology into the thread, I'd like to comment on the whole thing. 

When I used the term weak, I was referring specifically to my father.  And I also made sure to say that I do not feel the same way that Bill does about other people's need to be verbally appreciated.  My feeling that father is weak is specific to him.  And like I said, he is extreme.  Not knowing my dad, I realize that other people don't know what I mean by that, but the way he goes on and on and on and GUSHES about every little tiny thing my children do (or my brother's kids, or my mom, or whoever) is what he not only wants for himself but NEEDS.  And I get that some people need more verbal affirmation, but I also know from knowing him and his history that his need for it is very largely driven by his own past and not getting from his father what he needed, especially given his personality.  Maybe my grandfather was more like Bill and I are, but unlike Bill and I, was unable or unwilling to give that verbal affirmation to his child. (I obviously wasn't there, and have heard a few conflicting reports, so I know how my grandfathermade my dad *feel*, but I am not sure exactly what he *did* or didnt do, as the case may be)  Just like I haven't quite tackled all of my issues with my dad, he hasn't either.  Only he has taken a different path and decided he is over it and that if he just lives his life like none of that matters, then it won't.  Anyway, my point is, for MY DAD, I do see it as a weakness-because in his case, it isn't *just* his personality, it is his broken spirit, and his denial of that, as well.  And I have tried many many times to just offer him what he needs despite the fact that doing so makes my stomach churn (again-that is a specific thing to *him* and I do not feel that way with other people), but it causes this rippling thing where somehow my praise of my dad makes him feel that he is justified in telling me what to do and how to live my life, and it is just not good.  Now I do give him compliments, but no where near the level that I know he needs to feel fulfilled.

Anyway, this was a long winded way of me saying that I did not say, and do not feel that having a "desire for kindness, respect and appreciation is interpreted as weakness." 

And I also want to say that tbh, the statement you made above makes it sound as if verbal affirmation/praise is required to show others kindness, respect and appreciation, when that is clearly not the case at all. That would be like saying that because Bill and I don't verbally affirm each other all that often, that we are not kind to each other, and have no respect or appreciation for one other. So obviously not the case.  Some people do not need much verbal affirmation. Some people truly don't feel comfortable with what others might feel is a normal level of verbal affirmation.  And I can tell you that while Bill (and his whole family, really) does have macho tendencies, it is truly his personality to not need much praise.  When I tell him that I think he did a good job on the retaining wall out front (which I did tell him, because he did do a good job), he says, "Thanks-it did turn out well." and moves on with whatever he was doing.  When I give him a back rub, carve out a few hours to spend just with him, or yes, have sex with him, he feels loved and appreciated.  THOSE things matter to him.  Back to the retaining wall-my dad would be inviting the entire neighborhood over to see his wall SPECIFICALLY so that they could praise the fantastic job he did.  However, when my neighbor (who is definitely a words of affirmation person) came over yesterday and started going on a bit about how great it looked, Bill looked visibly uncomfortable.  The first "Wow Bill, that looks great!" was more than enough for him.  It isn't him being macho-it is his personality.  And tbh, why in world would I, to the person who means most to me in the world, go on and on about every little thing he does when I *know* that those kinds of things make him uncomfortable?  Does that show him more kindness, respect and appreciation, or does that just tell him that I don't know him at all, and thus just speak a completely different language to him?  Or am I supposed to make him feel uncomfortable (and myself as well, in the process) because it sets a better example for my kids? 

Don't get me wrong-both Bill and I know how to praise people, and while it is particularly hard for him to do sometimes, we both do it.  Not to the same degree as I am sure words of affirmation types do, but enough.  But IMO, the people who you love the most are the people you should know the best.  And as such, you should know whether or not those words are necessary or even appreciated. I know Anna needs to be verbally affirmed, and I have no trouble giving that to her, but again, that is on the bottom of the list for Bill.  I don't think it would be very loving of me at.all. to shower him with praise that would end up putting him off.



-- Edited by Supafly on Tuesday 8th of September 2009 01:01:09 PM

-- Edited by Supafly on Tuesday 8th of September 2009 01:42:24 PM

 


Regarding the situation with your dad, I totally get what you're saying, and that all makes sense.

Regarding the green, if that's what I said, it certainly isn't what I meant. There's a distinct difference between saying, "that isn't what makes me feel good personally", or "this just isn't what we like or do", and "I think that's ridiculous (i.e., for the weak)." I was talking about the latter. There are plenty of people who are the former (including myself); I would argue that just because someone doesn't get off on it personally doesn't mean they also need to hold contempt for those who do. I know that once upon a time, I had that inclination... and then realized that was more about my own baggage and hangups than anything else.

It's like when someone wishes an atheist a Merry Christmas -- I've never understood the contempt there. While the atheist might not give two shits about the holiday, I think the animosity towards someone merely wishing them well (albeit in a different "language") is suspect of the atheist's baggage more than anything else.

Regarding the red, I'm of a different point of view here. Myself, I'm not comfortable adopting that paradigm because it seems like it would be easy for me to become complacent and start taking things for granted, and in my own life experience, sometimes the people to whom we are closest can be the most challenging to effectively communicate with (particularly in the presence of growth or change) because we bring so much history and a shorthand with us to every new communication. I'm pretty freaking intense, though. rofl.gif


 


ITA with you, re:green.  I know that has been the case for me personally.  IDT it is with Bill, however, though he doesn't hold people in contempt for needing praise, he just thinks it is a fact (it *is* a fact to him, as nothing has ever proven it to be otherwise in his scientific brain) that people who need what he would clasify as excessive amounts of praise have that as a character flaw.  He is not emotional about it in anyway-if you talk to him about it, he truly sees it as factual information.  Yeah, not sure he would do well with a lot of women.  Maybe I have finally figured out why he only had one (brief) relationship prior to me, lmao.

Re:red-that is facinating to me since I am so the opposite.  When I "do unto others" and don't take the time and make the effort to speak *their* language, I get lazy and complacent in my treatment of them. In order for me to have meaningful relationships with others, it is crucial that I tap into their needs and speak to those.  And it keeps me on my toes more also because I know that in our 9 years of marriage, Bill's needs have changed some, and I have had to learn to speak to his new needs (he isn't as good at keeping up, lmao.  I have tried subtle, but found it is far better to clearly lay things out with him.).  IDK.  But while I suck at communicating with my father, I (not to toot my own horn here) am very good at communicating with most of the people with whom I am closest.  Bill, in particular of course, but really most everyone in my immediate circle.  Not to say I am a perfect communicator by any stretch, of course.  And again, the exception lies with my father.  I have hope, but at this point, my communication with him is fairly minimal, by my own hand.  I talk to him, but I don't "communicate" much with him, iykwim.  Anyway, it is so interesting to me how different we all are!

Oh, and ok-since I was the one who mentioned the whole weakness thing as it pertains to me and my dad, I wanted to make sure it was known that I do not equate the need for verbal affirmation with weakness.  I don't really "get" the need per se, but I try really hard to, and I try to offer what I can to those I care about, when I know it is something they need. 

And really, I think we all need some verbal affirmation-if I got none and Bill got none, I am sure we would notice that and not like it.  We aren't closed off or unfeeling people.  We just put MORE weight in other things that show appreciation.  Different strokes for different folks, I guess.  I know I don't think Bill is a sissy because he can't watch SYTYCD without me sitting next to him and giving him and the show my undivided attention, lol! (and did I mention he had tears after the breast cancer dance that Melissa and Ade did?  Oh yes-tears!  from BILL!!)

Oh, and finally, I am TTTTTTTTTOTALLY with you on the rofl guy.

 



Just to belabor this to death, regarding the green... let me clarify that's not what I said that I do.

I'm not at all a "do onto others" person... as evidenced by the fact that I answered the initial question in the affirmative, despite the fact that I'm not a words of affirmation person.

And I definitely will draw summaries of what I think people's needs to be (or anything about them, for that matter) -- I think that's almost inevitable.

It's just once I've gleaned those summaries, I don't like to box people into them, if that makes sense. You'd said that it's up to us to know the languages of those who are most important to us (almost as though implying they are a constant), and with that, I agree. I just expect their preferences and needs to always be evolving, and as such, I don't like to rely exclusively on previous conclusions... i.e., just because Damon isn't a gifts person doesn't mean I'm going to slack on his gift. Just in case.



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mctex wrote:

Supafly wrote:

 


ITA with you, re:green.  I know that has been the case for me personally.  IDT it is with Bill, however, though he doesn't hold people in contempt for needing praise, he just thinks it is a fact (it *is* a fact to him, as nothing has ever proven it to be otherwise in his scientific brain) that people who need what he would clasify as excessive amounts of praise have that as a character flaw.  He is not emotional about it in anyway-if you talk to him about it, he truly sees it as factual information.  Yeah, not sure he would do well with a lot of women.  Maybe I have finally figured out why he only had one (brief) relationship prior to me, lmao.

Re:red-that is facinating to me since I am so the opposite.  When I "do unto others" and don't take the time and make the effort to speak *their* language, I get lazy and complacent in my treatment of them. In order for me to have meaningful relationships with others, it is crucial that I tap into their needs and speak to those.  And it keeps me on my toes more also because I know that in our 9 years of marriage, Bill's needs have changed some, and I have had to learn to speak to his new needs (he isn't as good at keeping up, lmao.  I have tried subtle, but found it is far better to clearly lay things out with him.).  IDK.  But while I suck at communicating with my father, I (not to toot my own horn here) am very good at communicating with most of the people with whom I am closest.  Bill, in particular of course, but really most everyone in my immediate circle.  Not to say I am a perfect communicator by any stretch, of course.  And again, the exception lies with my father.  I have hope, but at this point, my communication with him is fairly minimal, by my own hand.  I talk to him, but I don't "communicate" much with him, iykwim.  Anyway, it is so interesting to me how different we all are!

Oh, and ok-since I was the one who mentioned the whole weakness thing as it pertains to me and my dad, I wanted to make sure it was known that I do not equate the need for verbal affirmation with weakness.  I don't really "get" the need per se, but I try really hard to, and I try to offer what I can to those I care about, when I know it is something they need. 

And really, I think we all need some verbal affirmation-if I got none and Bill got none, I am sure we would notice that and not like it.  We aren't closed off or unfeeling people.  We just put MORE weight in other things that show appreciation.  Different strokes for different folks, I guess.  I know I don't think Bill is a sissy because he can't watch SYTYCD without me sitting next to him and giving him and the show my undivided attention, lol! (and did I mention he had tears after the breast cancer dance that Melissa and Ade did?  Oh yes-tears!  from BILL!!)

Oh, and finally, I am TTTTTTTTTOTALLY with you on the rofl guy.

 



Just to belabor this to death, regarding the green... let me clarify that's not what I said that I do.

I'm not at all a "do onto others" person... as evidenced by the fact that I answered the initial question in the affirmative, despite the fact that I'm not a words of affirmation person.

And I definitely will draw summaries of what I think people's needs to be (or anything about them, for that matter) -- I think that's almost inevitable.

It's just once I've gleaned those summaries, I don't like to box people into them, if that makes sense. You'd said that it's up to us to know the languages of those who are most important to us (almost as though implying they are a constant), and with that, I agree. I just expect their preferences and needs to always be evolving, and as such, I don't like to rely exclusively on previous conclusions... i.e., just because Damon isn't a gifts person doesn't mean I'm going to slack on his gift. Just in case.


No, I am not saying that is what you do, though I see how it sounds like I was saying just that.  I did get from your PP that you don't like to assume that someone's language is a stagnant thing, as thus you could become complacent.  I should have started out by saying that, but rather immediately went into my own ideas, which were off on a bit of a tangent. 

I think that this is more the explaination that I had in my mind.  I also do not like to box people in.  If you look at the part of my above post that I highlighted in red, I don't feel like catering to people's languages and needs means you are boxing them in.  Bill is very similar in his needs to when we got married, but things *have* switched importance a bit.  Just as my primary language used to be different from what it is now.  That is what I find important-keeping up with the ones we love enough to notice when their needs shift or change.  I feel like if I am doing my job as Bill's wife, I will know him well enough to tell that what his needs are in that moment.  Sometimes I get it wrong, especially with others outside of my marriage, but I am usually spot on with Bill.  I do agree if you assume one's love language is the same as it was 15 years ago and never changes, it could be easy to become lazy about things-just as I definitely get lazy if I only treat others like I would like for them to treat me.

And this is not to say that I don't do things that I know aren't of Bill's primary love language.  And I don't think that I am doing things all for not-I mean acts of service aren't his main language, but I still pack his lunch and do his laundry, and I know that he appreciates that.

Anyway, maybe ultimately we are exactly the same in this, just communicating it differently here. 



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Sonya wrote:

I offer pats on the back all the time.

I LOVE being praised and thanked so I figure that other people do to.

It drives me nuts when I am not praised for little things that I should be doing. I'm sure it is just my personality. I praise the kids all the time for working hard or helping out, etc. I thank Mike for the things he does all the time (and just like Kelly's Mike, he looks at me like I have two heads).



Big shocker, this is me, too.

Coincidently, it is the exact opposite of Joe, so I'm constantly fishing for compliments. (Like today at the dinner table, I flat out announced, "So, it would be super rad if you would at least say the food was decent." Yes, he was shoveling in the food so quickly that it was obviously he liked it, had I thought about it for .2 seconds, but I just like to hear it.

I'm very high maintenance, and frankly am thrilled that not everyone is like me because it's a huge pita, lmao.

 



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Cuppycake wrote:

Sonya wrote:

I offer pats on the back all the time.

I LOVE being praised and thanked so I figure that other people do to.

It drives me nuts when I am not praised for little things that I should be doing. I'm sure it is just my personality. I praise the kids all the time for working hard or helping out, etc. I thank Mike for the things he does all the time (and just like Kelly's Mike, he looks at me like I have two heads).



Big shocker, this is me, too.

Coincidently, it is the exact opposite of Joe, so I'm constantly fishing for compliments. (Like today at the dinner table, I flat out announced, "So, it would be super rad if you would at least say the food was decent." Yes, he was shoveling in the food so quickly that it was obviously he liked it, had I thought about it for .2 seconds, but I just like to hear it.

I'm very high maintenance, and frankly am thrilled that not everyone is like me because it's a huge pita, lmao.

 


Speaking of meals, after EVERY meal in my house, Kenneth kisses me and says "good breakfast, dinner, supper" and his Daddy does the same thing.

Sure, it's my JOB, but I still like to hear appreciation for it.  I don't think I'm high maintenance though because I like to be appreciated..

 



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Juanita wrote:

Cuppycake wrote:

 

Sonya wrote:

I offer pats on the back all the time.

I LOVE being praised and thanked so I figure that other people do to.

It drives me nuts when I am not praised for little things that I should be doing. I'm sure it is just my personality. I praise the kids all the time for working hard or helping out, etc. I thank Mike for the things he does all the time (and just like Kelly's Mike, he looks at me like I have two heads).



Big shocker, this is me, too.

Coincidently, it is the exact opposite of Joe, so I'm constantly fishing for compliments. (Like today at the dinner table, I flat out announced, "So, it would be super rad if you would at least say the food was decent." Yes, he was shoveling in the food so quickly that it was obviously he liked it, had I thought about it for .2 seconds, but I just like to hear it.

I'm very high maintenance, and frankly am thrilled that not everyone is like me because it's a huge pita, lmao.

 


Speaking of meals, after EVERY meal in my house, Kenneth kisses me and says "good breakfast, dinner, supper" and his Daddy does the same thing.

Sure, it's my JOB, but I still like to hear appreciation for it.  I don't think I'm high maintenance though because I like to be appreciated..

 


Bill is actually very good at complimenting my meals.  I guess his food is important to him, lmao!!  He always gives feedback on meals.

But the way I see cooking is that putting a meal on the table is my job-the cooking I tend to do goes above and beyond just putting a meal on the table (and I do that because I really enjoy cooking-so I don't think everyone *should* do it-I just happen to like cooking).  It is more of a skill thing, kwim?  Not just a chore.  IDK-I guess I don't see how different cleaning the floors or the bathrooms could be from house to house, aside from the product people use to get to the same end result.  But cooking is a different story.  We deserve compliments on that!!! biggrin

Too bad the kids hate my cooking, lmao.  Oh well, they will appreciate it someday...right???

 



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