Jake's Conference

apies · Guru

Jake's Conference

Erin · Guru

Yay for him being such a smartie!

Looking forward to hearing what others think, but, I think he sounds like a boy. Nothing you have ever commented on about him seems to me to think he has any sort of ADD. He sounds bored and I think moving him to the 4 year old class will be good for him - being around other prereaders, etc. It sounds to me like he challenges her in ways other kids might not, but that doesnt make him ADD. biggrin

Also, I think it is odd she suggested a gifted program at under four years old. Everything I have heard here says that they do not test for gifted until at least second grade since BECAUSE of their lack of attention span - it would be too dificult to get a good read on any test. The differences in abilities (gross, motor, speech, etc) are so varied at that age, I find it hard to believe that there is a "gifted" three year old program anywhere. (Which isn't to say I dont think he is gifted, cause I do, just that its eems like an odd thing to start tracking kids that early).

-- Edited by Erin on Friday 18th of February 2011 03:05:45 PM

muffy · Guru

Could his lack of attention be because he's bored? Because the stuff is too easy, so he quickly processes it then goes to other things?

How is he in situations where he is enjoying hinself or is challenged. Can he sit through a movie without being a wiggle worm? Can he complete a challenging puzzle/ game without losing interest?

My mom always said that my brother ( Mensa genius) was labeled in early school with concentration issues, but fact is he was bored silly with his peer group.

Just a thought.

Alyssa · Guru

Erin wrote:

Yay for him being such a smartie!

Looking forward to hearing what others think, but, I think he sounds like a boy. Nothing you have ever commented on about him seems to me to think he has any sort of ADD. He sounds bored and I think moving him to the 4 year old class will be good for him - being around other prereaders, etc. It sounds to me like he challenges her in ways other kids might not, but that doesnt make him ADD. Also, I think it is odd she suggested a gifted program at under four years old. Everything I have heard here says that they do not test for gifted until at least second grade since BECAUSE of their lack of attention span - it would be too dificult to get a good read on any test. The differences in abilities (gross, motor, speech, etc) are so varied at that age, I find it hard to believe that there is a "gifted" three year old program anywhere. (Which isn't to say I dont think he is gifted, cause I do, just that its eems like an odd thing to start tracking kids that early).

-- Edited by Erin on Friday 18th of February 2011 03:05:45 PM

completely agree with this. I think 4s a little young to diagnose ADD. Ethan is much the same and so are most of the other boys in that age range that I know.

I was tested for gift in kindergarten so I don't know that it's too young, but I think the first step is moving him in with the older kids and seeing if that helps.

3s_a_crowd · Guru

I wouldnt worry about it unless he cant concentrate with anything. Raym has a short attention span if hes not interested but you get him wth words, letters and phonics and hell sit there for hours.

Id try to move him up and see if it changes anything before doing the gifted testing. If his attention span improves maybe hed be better at whatever testing they would do at this age.

CoffeeQueen · Guru

I would wait and see. I think unless you plan to medicate, then testing for add at this point will not help much. I mean there are ways to redirect, teach or handle him differently. I would see how he adjusts to the 4 year old program and wait to test him. If he has a high iq, it will not change much at 4. Do they have a special program for gifted?

mctex · Guru

I agree with the assessment of the ADD situation. That coupled with the gifted testing situation suggest to me he needs a more challenging school.

Before diagnosing something like that, I would tinker around with the school choice (even including teaching methodology - i.e., consider a Montessori or International Baccalaureate curriculum, both of which emphasize child-initiated learning) before going that route. Being ADD myself and having taken the medications as an adult, you don't want to go that route if it's at all avoidable. Those meds don't come without consequences.

Dddiii · Guru

muffy wrote:

Could his lack of attention be because he's bored? Because the stuff is too easy, so he quickly processes it then goes to other things?

How is he in situations where he is enjoying hinself or is challenged. Can he sit through a movie without being a wiggle worm? Can he complete a challenging puzzle/ game without losing interest?

My mom always said that my brother ( Mensa genius) was labeled in early school with concentration issues, but fact is he was bored silly with his peer group.

Just a thought.

This was exactly my thought. Sounds to me like he's bored! And congrats on a great conference!

Alicia · Senior Member

This sounds familiar except my son was a few years older. I didn't have any problems with him at home so I didn't take his teachers opinion seriously. We were moving anyway so he switched schools. Found out rather quickly that he was bored at his old school.

Alison · Guru

I definitely agree that it sounds like he's bored, especially with gifted likeliness. I wouldn't give a second thought to the ADD thing - he just sounds like a bored, brilliant boy to me!

Juni · Guru

I would say if *you* were concerned as well then I would totally get an assessment. But, all signs point to boredom and I can't see how they don't see the irony of saying he should be evaluated for both ADD and the gifted program. Anyway, my thinking is that he is being moved to a higher classer pretty soon so wait and see how he does there. I bet it's just boredom.

On the flip side - isn't he young for gifted testing? What do you do with that? Is there a program available at this age? (If so, maybe that would be a much better fit for him.)

apies · Guru

thanks everyone.

i feel how everyone here feels - that her suggestions are sort of contradictory and that it is likely he is bored.

i've been researching montessori programs for him, thinking that might help him be less bored. maybe if he was in a self-directed environment, he could do more to develop his interests.

i guess my concerns with montessori (or a similar program) are how do they transition from a program like that to a traditional kindergarten program, where it would be more structured. any input there?

CoffeeQueen · Guru

I can tell you first Hans how they transition. Allie is in a Montessori program and with transition to a reg. 1st grade. The children do just fine.

Montessori is 3-5, so he would stay in Montessori for kdg.

Erin · Guru

April, Kiera went to a Montessori school, which I frequently refer to as "Montessori lite", before public Kinder and Rhys is there now. I call it Montessori Lite because copmpared to the school up the street it is less intense in their expectations of us and of the kids. However, it follows many of the same principles of montessori, just not as hard core. Not trying to start a "what is real montessori" debate, but just wanted to encourage you to look around to find a program that fits you and your family. Its been awhile since I did the research, but if I recall there were sort of two branches, one that follow the founder to the letter, and the other is a bit more freeform? Do a bit of research regarding the accreditation and what they need to meet to officially call themseves "Montessori."

All that is a preface to say that I actually found our school to have a lot of structure, within which they have choices and are free to develop, explore and learn at their pace. There is a schedule pretty common to montessori schools - that includes group time to start the day, go over the calendar, etc, followed by a couple hours of "work"time, which is choice time for activities they get to choose activities and work on them, then lunch, etc. Its how they approach those times that are a bit different.

I found it to transition really well to public K, which follow a similar schedule. It keeps them busy, and not just wandering around "playing."

-- Edited by Erin on Saturday 19th of February 2011 11:56:03 AM

Sara · Guru

i would not think add. just typical boy

Juanita · Guru

I personally think people are quick to judge to put a label on kids these days

He sounds like a boy to me, a normal, busy, energetic little boy, and think when he moves up into the next classroom, he'll do better

mctex · Guru

Erin wrote:

April, Kiera went to a Montessori school, which I frequently refer to as "Montessori lite", before public Kinder and Rhys is there now. I call it Montessori Lite because copmpared to the school up the street it is less intense in their expectations of us and of the kids. However, it follows many of the same principles of montessori, just not as hard core. Not trying to start a "what is real montessori" debate, but just wanted to encourage you to look around to find a program that fits you and your family. Its been awhile since I did the research, but if I recall there were sort of two branches, one that follow the founder to the letter, and the other is a bit more freeform? Do a bit of research regarding the accreditation and what they need to meet to officially call themseves "Montessori."

All that is a preface to say that I actually found our school to have a lot of structure, within which they have choices and are free to develop, explore and learn at their pace. There is a schedule pretty common to montessori schools - that includes group time to start the day, go over the calendar, etc, followed by a couple hours of "work"time, which is choice time for activities they get to choose activities and work on them, then lunch, etc. Its how they approach those times that are a bit different.

I found it to transition really well to public K, which follow a similar schedule. It keeps them busy, and not just wandering around "playing."

-- Edited by Erin on Saturday 19th of February 2011 11:56:03 AM

It's AMI vs. AMS.

http://www.montessorianswers.com/ami-or-ams.html

The two Montessori schools we've had the girls in are AMS.

Alexandra had a little difficulty transitioning from her Spanish IB program back to the Montessori environment, but it was resolved within a matter of weeks.

One strong benefit of Montessori: they teach the kids how to clean up after themselves. biggrin

We are going back to IB next year for Alexandra (I hope; we've applied for an out-of-district transfer and we'll find out if we got it the first week of April), and I'm anticipating another very brief transitional period. We'll see.

Jo · Guru

mctex wrote:

Erin wrote:

April, Kiera went to a Montessori school, which I frequently refer to as "Montessori lite", before public Kinder and Rhys is there now. I call it Montessori Lite because copmpared to the school up the street it is less intense in their expectations of us and of the kids. However, it follows many of the same principles of montessori, just not as hard core. Not trying to start a "what is real montessori" debate, but just wanted to encourage you to look around to find a program that fits you and your family. Its been awhile since I did the research, but if I recall there were sort of two branches, one that follow the founder to the letter, and the other is a bit more freeform? Do a bit of research regarding the accreditation and what they need to meet to officially call themseves "Montessori."

All that is a preface to say that I actually found our school to have a lot of structure, within which they have choices and are free to develop, explore and learn at their pace. There is a schedule pretty common to montessori schools - that includes group time to start the day, go over the calendar, etc, followed by a couple hours of "work"time, which is choice time for activities they get to choose activities and work on them, then lunch, etc. Its how they approach those times that are a bit different.

I found it to transition really well to public K, which follow a similar schedule. It keeps them busy, and not just wandering around "playing."

-- Edited by Erin on Saturday 19th of February 2011 11:56:03 AM

It's AMI vs. AMS.
http://www.montessorianswers.com/ami-or-ams.html
The two Montessori schools we've had the girls in are AMS.
Alexandra had a little difficulty transitioning from her Spanish IB program back to the Montessori environment, but it was resolved within a matter of weeks.
One strong benefit of Montessori: they teach the kids how to clean up after themselves.
We are going back to IB next year for Alexandra (I hope; we've applied for an out-of-district transfer and we'll find out if we got it the first week of April), and I'm anticipating another very brief transitional period. We'll see.

Now if only my boys would apply this at home! :)

Is it just my boys?

April - you've got great feedback already, and I agree that he's probably bored and just being an energetic boy.

I had (have?) the same concern about Montessori students transitioning, but all of the parents we talked to who had students move on to public/private schools in 4th/5th grade at the boys' old school in Tucson said good things. They didn't report their students having any problems making the switch. I'm hoping that will be the case for us here, as the boys will likely transition at least after 3rd grade and possibly after 5th if the program continues to grow that much.

Corey · Guru

i just wrote a super long response on my phone and lost it. grrr.

connor has adhd. i think i always knew something just wasn't quite "right." everyone i knew would say "oh, he's just a boy--boys are just wild" or some similar reaction so i would deny it. i would think to myself, "gosh, he's only three...of course he can't sit still at library story time" or "i bet most four year olds run away from their mother at the grocery store."

eventually i got to the point where i couldn't deny it anymore. i knew he wasn't behaving on the same age level as his peers. i mean, jeez, he wasn't even behaving on the same age level as his almost two years younger sister.

does jake have adhd? i think first and foremost you are the best judge of that. of course all kids are wild, boys especially, but adhd kids are wild in settings where other kids aren't. when i first started thinking connor had adhd i read a book...and felt like the "symptoms" were as if the author had been assigned to list the personality traits of my child.

some people might say that if you don't plan to medicate then what is the point of even having him tested. i disagree. connor is not currently medicated. he is only in school half days and we decided to not go that route until next year when he is in school all day. his teacher knowing he has adhd has made a year of school that could have been awful pretty good. connor, like jake, is extremely smart. one half of his report card is based on academics. he exceeded expectations in that entire area. the other half is based on emotional and social development and attention. he rated poor in almost every single category.

had his teacher not known he had adhd she may have just thought he was a problem child. when he fidgeted in circle time, instead of giving him something to hold to focus on she may have sent him to the principal. instead of having an IEP he may have been required to finish his work in the time slot the other kids are given. when she realized connor took 15 minutes to hang up his backpack, wash his hands and get to his table instead of telling him to hurry up his teacher brainstormed with the school psychologist ways to get him to go faster. now he has a clipboard that shows pictures of his tasks in order (i hang up my coat, then i wash my hands, then i walk to my desk) so that he knows exactly what he is expected to do next.

jake very well could just be bored. i'm curious how he behaves in a non school setting.

CoffeeQueen · Guru

Corey, I said there is no point in testing if you do not plan to medicate, but I guess I did not expand.

I agree with what you said though. If the teachers do know he is add or ADHD, then it will help them learn how direct him. However, at age 3, teachers should be able to teach him regardless if he is or is not. I think at 3 finding what works best for him is the most important. However, if he also is not challenged enough in schooll then that will just magnify it.

So, sorry I said it like that. I do not want someone to think that there is no point to it.