Tantrums

LucsMama · Senior Member

Tantrums

CoffeeQueen · Guru

Is he having any troubles in class in terms of not processing things or maybe he is frustrated because he cannot do something and is reacting this way?

LucsMama · Senior Member

I'm not sure... but he hasn't been doing this all year. It started around November. He was fine his first whole week back after Christmas break. Yesterday was his first meltdown at school after a whole week prior with good behavior and all smiley faces.

happylib · Guru

I am sorry he is having a hard time. My first thought when reading this is that he might be very aware of what others are doing verses his perception of how he is doing. Often kids that don't feel like they can do something well enough react by withdrawing, which these tantrums allow him to do. All behaviors have a pay off, and sometimes you have to really look at what that is. Sometimes it's more than one thing. When I was teaching kids with learning/behavior problems, I had to be careful not to reward that negative behavior. Beyond withdrawing, I think you and his teacher might be able to determine if there are any other reasons for it. Once you have them figured out, you might be able to address them better. Also, it is possible that he needs more immediate positive feedback.

ETA: After reading this again, it sounds like I am implying he has a learning/behavior problem. I do NOT think that. I just think he is one smart boy and does this for a reason.

-- Edited by happylib on Wednesday 12th of January 2011 09:49:53 AM

CoffeeQueen · Guru

Have they started doing any new work or material that he is now having a harder time with?

Also, his cat just passed, right? Do you think he is just emotionally upset and it comes out in this form?

LucsMama · Senior Member

happylib wrote:

I am sorry he is having a hard time. My first thought when reading this is that he might be very aware of what others are doing verses his perception of how he is doing. Often kids that don't feel like they can do something well enough react by withdrawing, which these tantrums allow him to do. All behaviors have a pay off, and sometimes you have to really look at what that is. Sometimes it's more than one thing. When I was teaching kids with learning/behavior problems, I had to be careful not to reward that negative behavior. Beyond withdrawing, I think you and his teacher might be able to determine if there are any other reasons for it. Once you have them figured out, you might be able to address them better. Also, it is possible that he needs more immediate positive feedback.

ETA: After reading this again, it sounds like I am implying he has a learning/behavior problem. I do NOT think that. I just think he is one smart boy and does this for a reason.

-- Edited by happylib on Wednesday 12th of January 2011 09:49:53 AM
No worries! I didn't think that at all!!!

LucsMama · Senior Member

CoffeeQueen wrote:

Have they started doing any new work or material that he is now having a harder time with?

Also, his cat just passed, right? Do you think he is just emotionally upset and it comes out in this form?

He seems to be doing fine with the work he just HATES making mistakes and really gets mad when he doesn't get something perfect the first time. I tell him that mistakes are how you learn and that's why his pencils have erasers.

I wondered about the Cat thing but he started it before Christmas break... but I guess it could have made him revert back to the tantrums?!? But then again he hade MAJOR attitude over Christmas break some days... especially ones where we stayed home and didn't go somewhere and do something he considered "fun"

LDSMOM · Senior Member

Rebecca is this way. She's gotten TONS better now that she's a teenager but she still gets angry when she doesn't understand or do something perfectly the first time. She used to yell and scream and throw things when she'd make a mistake. Now she just gets mad and says she can't do anything right. I honesly have no idea how to deal with it, even though I understand her position. I used to be that way, too, and still my first reaction to a mistake is to get angry. People would tell me making mistakes is okay, but it WASN'T okay with me. I HAD to be perfect. If I couldn't do that one thing, in my mind I couldn't do ANYTHING. My standards for myself have always been significantly higher than other's expectations of me. Now I tend to stick to the stuff I know I can do well and avoid those things I can't do well. I'm getting better at being okay with mistakes and imperfection, but it's still hard for me.

Anyway, I know what you're dealing with but I don't have any advice since I can't even fix it in myself. When Rebecca threw tantrums, I would put her in time out to calm down until she could come back and try again. Sometimes we would work all day on one task and very rarely we would spend several days on a task going from time out to working and back again. The only thing that saves my sanity in this regard is she's very good at a lot of things so times when she gets mad because she can't do something are rare.

Also, along the same lines is the idea that if she can't do it HER way, even if it's wrong, it won't be done at all. Ever. And I'm "just mean" if I suggest a different way.

LucsMama · Senior Member

LDSMOM wrote:

Rebecca is this way. She's gotten TONS better now that she's a teenager but she still gets angry when she doesn't understand or do something perfectly the first time. She used to yell and scream and throw things when she'd make a mistake. Now she just gets mad and says she can't do anything right. I honesly have no idea how to deal with it, even though I understand her position. I used to be that way, too, and still my first reaction to a mistake is to get angry. People would tell me making mistakes is okay, but it WASN'T okay with me. I HAD to be perfect. If I couldn't do that one thing, in my mind I couldn't do ANYTHING. My standards for myself have always been significantly higher than other's expectations of me. Now I tend to stick to the stuff I know I can do well and avoid those things I can't do well. I'm getting better at being okay with mistakes and imperfection, but it's still hard for me.

Anyway, I know what you're dealing with but I don't have any advice since I can't even fix it in myself. When Rebecca threw tantrums, I would put her in time out to calm down until she could come back and try again. Sometimes we would work all day on one task and very rarely we would spend several days on a task going from time out to working and back again. The only thing that saves my sanity in this regard is she's very good at a lot of things so times when she gets mad because she can't do something are rare.

Also, along the same lines is the idea that if she can't do it HER way, even if it's wrong, it won't be done at all. Ever. And I'm "just mean" if I suggest a different way.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR SHARING THAT!!!! Reading that I realized my DH is a lot like that too. He even hates trying new things because it gives him anxiety that he might not be good at it.

I hate that you guys struggle with it too but it makes me feel better we aren't the only ones trying to figure out the situation.

supergrover · Guru

Kari, Koda still throws massive tantums much like you described. He is already in bed for tonight because of it. Right down to the growling thing you describe. I think he gets really frustrated with himself so easily. He isn't even in K yet, but I can see him very easily having the same struggles. I don't have a solution. We just have boundaries just like you set up, and have put on our seatbelts for this ride with our super passionate kid. He loves with everything he has, but he also can scream, yell and be awful.

kdrew · Guru

I didn't read the other replies but when my nephew, now 13, was having tantrums at 5, my SIL took him to the doctor and the doc suggested that she start having him nap again.

Boom, problem solved.

Napping might not be an option but you might want to make sure he's getting extra sleep at night.

Cuppycake · Guru

Kari, he sounds a lot like my nephew... Is he in anything after school? Scouts, karate, anything like that? I almost wonder if having a different outlet for his emotions would help. Something like that could also boost his confidence, especially if he's having trouble dealing with making mistakes. Also, maybe you could give him a safe zone where it's okay to yell, cry, etc. We have that here. Hannah's safe zones are her bedroom and her bathroom. She can do anything in there (that isn't destructive or dangerous) to vent, but once she steps out, she has to be calm. That's been really helpful.

JenM · Senior Member

Cuppycake wrote:

Kari, he sounds a lot like my nephew... Is he in anything after school? Scouts, karate, anything like that? I almost wonder if having a different outlet for his emotions would help. Something like that could also boost his confidence, especially if he's having trouble dealing with making mistakes. Also, maybe you could give him a safe zone where it's okay to yell, cry, etc. We have that here. Hannah's safe zones are her bedroom and her bathroom. She can do anything in there (that isn't destructive or dangerous) to vent, but once she steps out, she has to be calm. That's been really helpful.

Kari, I'm sorry he's having a hard time. I ditto the extra stuff..Jillian does dance and it is amazing to me how much it has helped her, period.

And, the red.. we do this in our house. It helps SO much. Especially with Ryan. If either kid wants to throw a fit, scream, cry, yell etc they can do it in their rooms (of course unless they are being disrespectful in their yelling, which I don't tolerate) but once they step out, they know it has to change. In fact, just yesterday, Ryan was in SUPER rare form.. he took himself to his room, shut the door, had a tantrum and then came out calm.

*hugs*

LucsMama · Senior Member

supergrover wrote:

Kari, Koda still throws massive tantums much like you described. He is already in bed for tonight because of it. Right down to the growling thing you describe. I think he gets really frustrated with himself so easily. He isn't even in K yet, but I can see him very easily having the same struggles. I don't have a solution. We just have boundaries just like you set up, and have put on our seatbelts for this ride with our super passionate kid. He loves with everything he has, but he also can scream, yell and be awful.

Yeah Lucas had another tantrum at school and several at home during homework. I finally just told him that was enough, he had enough chances and he would just go to school without it finished for tonight. He was in bed by 6 and once he stopped screaming "you hate me, you don't care about me. I want to do my homework but you won't let me" he passed right out.

That last sentence sounds just like Lucas. He wants to snuggle and cuddle and is so thoughtful and then it's a jekyll and hyde situation!

LucsMama · Senior Member

kdrew wrote:

I didn't read the other replies but when my nephew, now 13, was having tantrums at 5, my SIL took him to the doctor and the doc suggested that she start having him nap again.

Boom, problem solved.

Napping might not be an option but you might want to make sure he's getting extra sleep at night.

I was wondering if he it could be the sleep thing... he gets up as soon as the sun comes up. I never have to wake him up for school. I put a curtain over his window and blinds today to keep out the sun and hopefully get him to sleep longer. He is in all day prek and goes from 9-3:45 and there is no nap time like he had in preK last year.

LucsMama · Senior Member

Cuppycake wrote:

Kari, he sounds a lot like my nephew... Is he in anything after school? Scouts, karate, anything like that? I almost wonder if having a different outlet for his emotions would help. Something like that could also boost his confidence, especially if he's having trouble dealing with making mistakes. Also, maybe you could give him a safe zone where it's okay to yell, cry, etc. We have that here. Hannah's safe zones are her bedroom and her bathroom. She can do anything in there (that isn't destructive or dangerous) to vent, but once she steps out, she has to be calm. That's been really helpful.

He isn't in any afterschool stuff. He gets off the bus at 4 and then we fit in homework, sight words, dinner, bath before bedtime at 7:30. Also on M-T-W he has two friends that I babysit come over after school until 5:30. He does do the Lowe's building clinics when they have them on the 2nd and 3rd weekend and we go to church on Sunday. Scouts for boys don't start until they are 6

His room is his safe zone. He is able to go in there and vent like you are talking about but I'm not sure how that would work at school?!? He usually doesn't seem to have tantrums at home UNLESS he's had a few in school back to back and is upset about getting several sad faces in a row for behavior.

Juni · Guru

I would recommend some kind of "take a break" type of thing. I work with a child who has severe issues - your examples aren't even in the ballpark with this child - but I can still share some of the things we do.

One of the things is deep pressure massage. Before we start in the morning or before we do an activity that I know he doesn't do well with we do this. If you are really interested I could try and video demonstrate it with Gavin or Owen - it's kind of hard to explain otherwise. We do deep pressure massage and joint compressions. You can modify it to a lot less if it is something you even want to do. But, throughout the day I can grab his hand and just massage that and it almost always instantly calms him down.

Another thing we do is counting - either up to ten or down to 1. Deep breath in, breathe out, and say 1. I model it every time with him. (Sometimes I need it more than he does!)

Something we just started today is I tell him to "deflate the balloon." He will get really tense and his whole body just gets super tight and tense. I explain to him it is like a balloon filled with air about to burst. Then I described what happens to a balloon when you let the air go and it deflates. So, when he is getting really upset I tell him to deflate his balloon and we breath air out, let shoulders drop and just try and relax.

I have no idea if that will help - the child I work with has a very hard time doing things he is not good at but he has a lot of other issues and unknown triggers so it might not be helpful at all.

I think I would be really careful about picking your battles. If he makes mistakes but they are age appropriate I would just let it go. I also think that he needs to have expectations laid out ahead of time. For example, with the art activity. He needs to know that if he doesn't follow the rules then (whatever) will happen. Whether it is he goes to a certain spot and takes a break or he just puts his stuff away, it needs to be in place ahead of time.

Some other things - do your best to be consistent. Do not give in during a fit just to get the fit over with. We call it "forced compliance" but that makes it sound really harsh. Basically, if the child is yelling at me to go out, close the door, etc. I calmly tell him he needs to ask nicely or politely. Sometimes he will yell at me five times (or more, who knows) but eventually does ask nicely. Then I close the door and give him his space. It's really hard and for some reason I have an easier time not getting into a battle of wills with other children than I do with my own so I know it is harder when it is your own child.

This is getting long - sorry - just hoping any of this will help. If you are at home I think you should designate a spot - call it a take a break spot and use it. When he is approaching a tantrum you give him a choice - "you can finish your homework quietly or go take a break." If he continues on to a tantrum you can say - "you can go to your take a break spot or I can help you go there, make a choice." Always give him a choice but obviously make them both things that are okay/appropriate. If he doesn't make a choice, guide him or pick him up and bring him. Ahead of time you can lay down ground rules - if you put him there then he needs to stay there for x number of minutes on his bottom quietly. If he puts himself there he can choose to come out when he is ready. The take a break room (for us) has nothing in it except a beanbag. No toys, no stimulus.

Phew. I can think of a bunch more but I don't even know if it's helpful. :)

-- Edited by Juni on Wednesday 12th of January 2011 11:51:26 PM

Juni · Guru

LucsMama wrote:

kdrew wrote:

I didn't read the other replies but when my nephew, now 13, was having tantrums at 5, my SIL took him to the doctor and the doc suggested that she start having him nap again.

Boom, problem solved.

Napping might not be an option but you might want to make sure he's getting extra sleep at night.

I was wondering if he it could be the sleep thing... he gets up as soon as the sun comes up. I never have to wake him up for school. I put a curtain over his window and blinds today to keep out the sun and hopefully get him to sleep longer. He is in all day prek and goes from 9-3:45 and there is no nap time like he had in preK last year.

Oh! Yeah, I bet that is a big part of it. All day K and he gets up early...I would definitely implement an earlier bedtime or try to push out his wake up time if possible.

LucsMama · Senior Member

JenM wrote:

Cuppycake wrote:

Kari, he sounds a lot like my nephew... Is he in anything after school? Scouts, karate, anything like that? I almost wonder if having a different outlet for his emotions would help. Something like that could also boost his confidence, especially if he's having trouble dealing with making mistakes. Also, maybe you could give him a safe zone where it's okay to yell, cry, etc. We have that here. Hannah's safe zones are her bedroom and her bathroom. She can do anything in there (that isn't destructive or dangerous) to vent, but once she steps out, she has to be calm. That's been really helpful.

Kari, I'm sorry he's having a hard time. I ditto the extra stuff..Jillian does dance and it is amazing to me how much it has helped her, period.

And, the red.. we do this in our house. It helps SO much. Especially with Ryan. If either kid wants to throw a fit, scream, cry, yell etc they can do it in their rooms (of course unless they are being disrespectful in their yelling, which I don't tolerate) but once they step out, they know it has to change. In fact, just yesterday, Ryan was in SUPER rare form.. he took himself to his room, shut the door, had a tantrum and then came out calm.

*hugs*

There are 3 karate schools close by our house. I might have to look into them. I think Lucas would like that and maybe it would teach him how to focus and give him some physical way to work out his anger.

We have the same rules... when you come out of your room you have to be in a better mood.

Juni · Guru

Juni wrote:

I would recommend some kind of "take a break" type of thing. I work with a child who has severe issues - your examples aren't even in the ballpark with this child - but I can still share some of the things we do.

One of the things is deep pressure massage. Before we start in the morning or before we do an activity that I know he doesn't do well with we do this. If you are really interested I could try and video demonstrate it with Gavin or Owen - it's kind of hard to explain otherwise. We do deep pressure massage and joint compressions. You can modify it to a lot less if it is something you even want to do. But, throughout the day I can grab his hand and just massage that and it almost always instantly calms him down.

Another thing we do is counting - either up to ten or down to 1. Deep breath in, breathe out, and say 1. I model it every time with him. (Sometimes I need it more than he does!)

Something we just started today is I tell him to "deflate the balloon." He will get really tense and his whole body just gets super tight and tense. I explain to him it is like a balloon filled with air about to burst. Then I described what happens to a balloon when you let the air go and it deflates. So, when he is getting really upset I tell him to deflate his balloon and we breath air out, let shoulders drop and just try and relax.

I have no idea if that will help - the child I work with has a very hard time doing things he is not good at but he has a lot of other issues and unknown triggers so it might not be helpful at all.

I think I would be really careful about picking your battles. If he makes mistakes but they are age appropriate I would just let it go. I also think that he needs to have expectations laid out ahead of time. For example, with the art activity. He needs to know that if he doesn't follow the rules then (whatever) will happen. Whether it is he goes to a certain spot and takes a break or he just puts his stuff away, it needs to be in place ahead of time.

Some other things - do your best to be consistent. Do not give in during a fit just to get the fit over with. We call it "forced compliance" but that makes it sound really harsh. Basically, if the child is yelling at me to go out, close the door, etc. I calmly tell him he needs to ask nicely or politely. Sometimes he will yell at me five times (or more, who knows) but eventually does ask nicely. Then I close the door and give him his space. It's really hard and for some reason I have an easier time not getting into a battle of wills with other children than I do with my own so I know it is harder when it is your own child.

This is getting long - sorry - just hoping any of this will help. If you are at home I think you should designate a spot - call it a take a break spot and use it. When he is approaching a tantrum you give him a choice - "you can finish your home quietly or go take a break." If he continues on to a tantrum you can say - "you can go to your take a break spot or I can help you go there, make a choice." Always give him a choice but obviously make them both things that are okay/appropriate. If he doesn't make a choice, guide him or pick him up and bring him. Ahead of time you can lay down ground rules - if you put him there then he needs to stay there for x number of minutes on his bottom quietly. If he puts himself there he can choose to come out when he is ready. The take a break room (for us) has nothing in it except a beanbag. No toys, no stimulus.

Phew. I can think of a bunch more but I don't even know if it's helpful. :)

RE: my first sentence. I don't mean to downplay your situation at all - I know it is super stressful. Just wanted to put that out there in case the ideas seem totally crazy.